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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:34
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I was searching the Web one night, and actually found a set of 7 factions that were pretty balanced. They were based off of the seven most powerful regions of the world:
United States
European Union
Russia
China
African Republic
I don't remember the other two, I think one might have been the U.N. or something, but unfortunately we had to run spyware and had to delete all of the temporary internet files, so I can't find the site that I found this. Personally, I find that the factions are already pretty good and pretty well balanced, with the exception of the aliens. If the Cyborgs had -2 growth, and spartans -2 industry, I would say all the factions are balanced.
I guess you could always resort to creating your own factions, and just get the pictures from the network node, although I don't know how good the pictures are. If anybody knows how to create those things, I'd appreciate it.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Commy
I If the Cyborgs had -2 growth, and spartans -2 industry, I would say all the factions are balanced.
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Just shows the difference of opinion. I already find the spartans to be one of the weaker factions and I consider the cyborgs to already be a little weaker than the university.
Its all opinion but MINUS 2 industry ??? Ouch ouch ouch
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Natalinasmpf
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Spartans should get a a free children's creche at every base, for their emphasis on morale, and proper upbringing.
Here's mine to evaluate, basically I tried to reform the Drone faction:
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New Commune of Planet
+2 growth - Cooperative Commune structure conducive for raising families
+1 Industry - Greater worker morale increases productivity
-3 Police - Severe dislike of force to suppress dissent in new agenda; dislike of offensive war.
Minus two drones per base (Commune structure tends to pacify a lot of unrest)
PENALTY: Police State (Adoption of police state would ultimately upset the foundations and ideals which the Commune is based on)
May not use Free Market Economics (Nemesis of the ideals of communism)
IMPUNITY: Planned Economics (Internal cooperation neutralises the inefficiency of planned economics)
IMPUNITY: Green Economics (A carefully regulated economy under a commune structure does not stifle growth)
SOCIAL, ++GROWTH, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, ---POLICE, IMPUNITY, Green, IMPUNITY, Planned, PENALTY, Police State, NODRONE, 2, SOCIAL, REVOLT, 50
Last edited by Natalinasmpf on 06-08-2004 at 11:18
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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The new commune looks a bit like an easily boomable Hive-- The ability to pop boom using any 2 of demo/planned/ creches will be very powerful especially when combined with the impunities. Penaltyless planned heh?? wow
To me they are a much more powerful version of the Hive-- The abilty to go democracy more than cancells out the inability to go PS and the additional content citizen compensates for 0 police.
Drone control will be a little bit of an issue but only because this faction will boom so fast-- heck as soon as you can go demo/planned you are there-- and with a +2 efficiency rating.
My opinion--- overpowered-- Only the inability to get to +2 econ is there as a major downside . .. I don't think that is enough to compensate-- you see IMHO a +2 on growth is just HUGE particularly with a second content citizen and the industry boon-- This fcation will grow so fast your head will spin
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redazncommieDXP
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I have never seen Santiago clean up against Yang. Usually, she gets in a good start, but then once Yang gets his engine running, Santiago is helpless to fight. She's simply overrun.
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Natalinasmpf
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quote:
Sorry but this one doesn't jibe. "A carefully regulated economy" just isn't related to growth (which is what is damaging to an ecology). The "A carefully regulated economy" does apply to Planned, but not Green. |
Er, Deidre cites, "a carefully regulated economy" as a Green economy, basically, a strive for efficiency. Planned in SMAC is really the humanitarian side of planned, while Green, the environmental....
Just different priorities in a regulated economy.
quote:
nteresting. And without police state you are saddled with a -3 police the til Thought Control. This would make war very difficult to manage. |
-3 Police is sort of crippling, but isn't that bad. Thats the whole point, else, they would be powerful. It does sort of make sense, the idealist population doesn't want to be saddled with war. Pacifism! However, they tolerate a minimalist war, so sending elite, upgraded units per base, or an extra two (because only one drone if MORE than one unit away, and you already have -2 drone benefits)....so yeah.
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I just don't see +1 Industry equating to a +2 Growth, but I'll let that one go. |
They don't have to equate: they're just different properties of the commune structure.
quote:
Overall it looks like 'Super Yang' to me. |
Its actually almost the opposite, save for the radical economics, because of severe intolerance of police, however, growth and industry happen to be the common factors.
Generally, communists don't like a police state. They don't like force, generally, semi-anarchic. Unless they're brainwashed by a ideological hijacker.
quote:
My opinion--- overpowered-- Only the inability to get to +2 econ is there as a major downside . .. I don't think that is enough to compensate-- you see IMHO a +2 on growth is just HUGE particularly with a second content citizen and the industry boon-- This fcation will grow so fast your head will spin |
Should I pop in a negative research, (because budget to improve living conditions detracts from research funding?) rating?
-3 Police, I think is quite crippling enough. I can increase this to -4, or even -5, if you think its enough.
quote:
Now you can pop boom without creches. Were you trying to make the Drones stronger?? |
Sort of, and I didn't get why Domai could run free market but not green. Didn't make sense.
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:34
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If you think about it, you can't really do a true communism in the game. Communism is where the government OWNS everything, and practically CONTROLS everything.
Planned just simply means that the government sets numerous and restrictive regulations within the business world, mostly to help the people life better lives.
While both attempt to do the same thing, make the living standard of everyone high, and give more consideration to every social class, planned is simply a type of economic system, communism is a political and society system, two very different things.
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Nabvrimn
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Militant Libertarians:
-2 police : not accepting of government restriction
immunity police : accept the necesity of war (faction bonuses aren't affected by umpunities, are they? If they are this won't work)
+1 morale : armed citizenry
-2 probe : little tolerance of governments keeping secrets from the citizenry
Penalty Thought Control : It takes a lot of resources to control well armed libertarians
-1 pop limit : cramped quarters simply do not work for people who believe they have the inalianable right to play their accordians in the middle of the night.
May not use police state
preference democracy
goal economy
The main advantage is the ability to go free market without crippling their military. This is big, but the inability to use police before thought control comes around (and that being unaffordable without the cloning vats) should do smoething towards making up for it, and the hab limits should also help prevent them from becoming an uberfaction.
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Chaos Theory
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Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Nabvrimn
Militant Libertarians:
-2 police : not accepting of government restriction
immunity police : accept the necesity of war (faction bonuses aren't affected by umpunities, are they? If they are this won't work)
+1 morale : armed citizenry
-2 probe : little tolerance of governments keeping secrets from the citizenry
Penalty Thought Control : It takes a lot of resources to control well armed libertarians
-1 pop limit : cramped quarters simply do not work for people who believe they have the inalianable right to play their accordians in the middle of the night.
May not use police state
preference democracy
goal economy
The main advantage is the ability to go free market without crippling their military. This is big, but the inability to use police before thought control comes around (and that being unaffordable without the cloning vats) should do smoething towards making up for it, and the hab limits should also help prevent them from becoming an uberfaction. |
This faction is weak because it cannot reach size 2 without a facility, a doctor, or lots of psych allocation. In the early game, before FM is an option, this can kill you.
Besides that, you can't achieve your desired effect. With immunity police, I believe you will have at least 0 police at all times. With impunity Free Market, you don't suffer the planet penalty either.
Apart from that, their only other bonus is +1 morale, which is not very good.
Realize that all in-game factions have more bonuses than penalties (Dissident, you read this, too!). If you try to balance the two, you get a weak faction. They need to do something well, possibly two things. For example:
Gaians - native life and efficiency
Morgan - energy and labs
Zak - labs and labs
Yang - drone control, minerals
Santi - combat
Believers - combat, probe, support
Lal - drone control, votes, flexibility
Aki - labs and efficiency, particularly the ease of hitting +4 effic
Sven - naval combat, naval building
Roze - probe, flexibility
Domai - building, drone control
Cha Dawn - native life
Your proposed faction's sole significant strength is the ability to fight with abandon in free market? Morgan can do that already, and then some.
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Zeiter
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This faction could be fun to play:
The Familial Hordes
+2 Growth - Society puts heavy emphasis on family life and encourages large families
-2 Research - Society tends to stick with old family traditions and customs, and is reluctant to adopt new technology
-1 Support - Faction dislikes diverting local community resources to support units in the field
-1 Econ - Most business transactions are at a small scale, local level, and families prefer to do business with people they know instead of huge megacorporations
-2 Probe - Society is very welcoming and open
Agenda: Planned - Citizenry likes to make sure that their communities and families will receive the resources they need.
Aversion: Green - Citizenry dislikes any regulations that restrict the gathering of resources for their families and communities.
Faction gets a free children's cheche in every base. - Emphasis on family care and development.
Faction can exceed hab limits by 10. - People are used to cramped living quarters.
Faction starts with social psych
The early growth is just huge! +4 immediately, then instant pop boom when switched to planned or demo. The lack of early research hurts, but is somewhat offset by the huge growth. The best econ rating this faction can get early on is +2, so that's somewhat of a drawback. And support and the probe rating could make military operations more difficult. But with the hab limits relaxed by 10, (size 17 w/o hab complex, size 24 w/hab complex) you could have some mega specialist bases later on in the mid-game, especially after orbital improvements. This faction has negatives in both the builder and momentum categories, but the huge growth enables them to do either. And, of course, they have a great shot at the planetary governorship. The AI would suck with this faction, as it wouldn't know how to handle the drone problems well enough to make use of the huge population, but a human could have some real fun with this faction.
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Chaos Theory
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Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:34
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Consider that the Ascetic Virtues is pretty nice with its +1 Police and +2 hab limits. Guess which one is more appealing most of the time? +10 is large enough players might have trouble using all of it efficiently, though, so it's not 5 times as good. Still, it's pretty good, and children's creches are one of the best facilities.
This faction would be a total monster in Demo/FM/Wealth:
+4 Growth (really +6)
-2 Research
-3 Support
+2 Econ
-2 Probe
+1 Industry
+2 Effic (+4 for inefficiency purposes)
-2 Morale (mostly nulled out by creches)
You can simultaneously pop boom and reach the magic +2 Econ, and still have good efficiency.
The early lack of research hurts, but with Social Psych, Rec Commons will be available early to help stem the drones resulting from rapid growth. Of course, you could always pump out colony pods as fast as possible, too. If you have nice terrain, you should dominate; on poor terrain, you could stagnate for a while, then do quite a bit better.
Verdict:
Strong, but not ridiculously so. It would take some play testing to see just how much this faction needs pruning.
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06-08-2004 04:39
)
When playing that faction, it is very tempting to choose democracy, but that lowers support to -4 which means every unit costs 2 mins to support. Ouch! Power can negate that penalty but then the industry bonus is gone.
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