11-08-2004 11:56									#91
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Bustamike. werd... I can respect that, even though ur not givin quake series its proper credit IMO. RTCW... im thinking of playing that seriously. its such a good game and its ****ing free.

As for Evo2k4, simple. Jap version (Originally M. Bison is Vega, Vega is balrog and Balrog is Bison.... Mike Tyson --- Mike bison.... ) Also Akuma is Gouki

	11-08-2004 13:17									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Awesome... EVO2K4 match for free at gamespot Gamespor is illegally hosting a match agst Alex Valle (incredibly famous Cali player) VS Daigo (that kid in my avatar who pulled the crazy counter in the first vid). I say illegally cause all match footages are properties of evo2k and i smell a complaint coming soon because evo2k sells the match vids as DVDs..... Its Super Street fighter 2 turbo. http://www.gamespot.com/arcade/acti...turbo_evo04.asx

Bah. That guy playing as Sagat just constantly spams those fireballs in the first fight. What a cheap-ass loser tactic that is - the kind of thing your lame little brother does when you play against him because he stands no chance of winning any other way.

	11-08-2004 13:51									#93
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yeah.. even in the realm of pros, o.sagat is too good with fireball spamming. 3 different varying speed fireballs and 2 heights... thats total of 6 flavor of fireball to time the jump.... The problem is that o.sagat also has great punisher for people who try to get in. tiger knee, great normals, tiger uppercut....

Balrog is a master of getting in. And once he's in there, he punishes big time. In this case, balrog outplayed sagat.... with some nasty cornering too, but usually I see alot more sagats winning with his fireball traps.

but take my word that the way they use fireballs to trap an opponent is waaaay better than how someone's lil brother would do.

	11-08-2004 15:52									#94
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quote: You honestly think just because someone stopped playing a certain sport or game means that they have no right to give their input on the game or sport? You think jordan doesnt know his **** about basketball cause he stopped playing? LOL

If Jordon stopped playing basketball in the 1950's, then yes, his opinion means less to me than someone who retired last year. I didnt say "no right", I take their opinion a lot less seriously, especially when theyre mouthing off and comparing themselves as the Jordon of CS. Yeah i retired from playing seriously. Dont make me laugh.

quote: I'd rather trust some dumb forum guy who thinks hes a hotshot cause he's played hardcore with really good people therefore he thinks he knows his **** over some retard who has no argument whatsoever.

How do i know youve played "hardcore"? I trust "the other guy" because ive seen 2v2 demos of him playing. "OMFG you think a demo proves ****?? OMG in the street etc" Well it proves more than claiming to know CS but not actually playing it (at least) since bunnyhopping was dampened.

	11-08-2004 20:11									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Says the guy who plays SOF..... oh man that is just TOO funny.

Quit the bullshit. You don't even know what you're talking about.
Besides all this freaked crap is crazy anyway. Playing street fighter is just playing the game 24/7 and knowing all the moves. It's rather pathetic


ps: you're overdoing it; play the game for fun, who cares about freaks who play useless games all day long and are craptastically stupid when you're talking about some more interesting issues.
Anybody can 'own' a game if the person plays enough, no big deal with that

You're just sounding like one of those flaming 'omg i pwnzed you noob!!' kids

	12-08-2004 00:09									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora If Jordon stopped playing basketball in the 1950's, then yes, his opinion means less to me than someone who retired last year. I didnt say "no right", I take their opinion a lot less seriously, especially when theyre mouthing off and comparing themselves as the Jordon of CS. Yeah i retired from playing seriously. Dont make me laugh

ur 100% correct that knowledge gets outdated. I lat played the game 3 years ago. I still keep up with CS shits cause people around me talk about it non stop. Its not like im living in a desert. I still know **** thats been way after my playing days.

I never said I was jordan of CS. I know people around me thats Waaaaay better than me, and theyre not maybe even the top 1000 in this world probably. But does that still change the fact that I know more than ur punk ass? as of now it seems very much so since you dont seem to know jackshit. Either way ur faggoty ass is gonna try to use my words aginst me when i try to be humble and when i try to bring my credential where its due.

You dont have to be bobby fischer to know and talk about chess. You think a guy who has never played bball has the right to say that high school varsity player doesnt no more **** than him just cause he aint jordan?

quote: How do i know youve played "hardcore"? I trust "the other guy" because ive seen 2v2 demos of him playing. "OMFG you think a demo proves ****?? OMG in the street etc" Well it proves more than claiming to know CS but not actually playing it (at least) since bunnyhopping was dampened.

how do you know i played hardcore? well you really cant. but at least i demonstrated my **** by talking about it. All you do is bring up ur dumb imaginary friend and putting my credentials down. Like I said, back ur **** up by telling me up right up front why im wrong. believe me, if he is as professional as you say he is, maybe he does know more than me and i may be wrong. I know my shits, but Id ratehr be wrong and correct my mistake and learn new things. So whats the problem? Own me. If you think im wrong just prove it fool.

Old school bunnyhopping being nerfed is an old old old news. That was even the case on my playing days. Man even toddlers who can barely talk can say "bunnyhopping was nerfed"....

	12-08-2004 00:18									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Playing street fighter is just playing the game 24/7 and knowing all the moves. It's rather pathetic

Dude, is knowing how to move all the chess pieces to obsessed? or is knowing most of the popular openings and strategy obsessive?

Man I play chess casually with old geezers at cafe and park and I know most of openings.....

quote: ps: you're overdoing it; play the game for fun, who cares about freaks who play useless games all day long and are craptastically stupid when you're talking about some more interesting issues.

I DO play the game for fun. Process of trying to beat a thinking human being is where i get my kicks. The psychological mindgames when you are going thru when playing anygames (chess, hold em, street fighter, CS, baseball) is fun to me. The game and the rule of the game is simply a tool in which two or more people can play mindgames with each other. And in order to play that mindgame both party must be willing to win. Its kinda boring when ur opponent doesnt care about winning cause that ruins the mind and the guessing game. Otherwise, why play poker with money on the line? whynot play just for fun with no one caring about winning... have u ever tried that ****.. its boring as ****ing hell.

i play to win, cause its challenging and fun. And to the contrary, not even 10% of so called "hardcore" players even play the game regulary. Maybe only people who have the desire to be jordans of that game.... most of us dont play all that much. Do you have to play bball religiously to become jordan or iverson? probably. If you wanna compete in the NBA hell yeah... even with so much talent, i can only imagine a rigorous amount of practice is needed on shot, maintaining ur body and ****.... but do you need to play like a fiend all day to get just a lil props on the streets? Not really.

Problem is most people dont even know how to start playing. Like I said about ender example, some people are just DOOMED to fail in a game cause they have scrub mindset. If you cant fix that you cant get better. Thats what makes the whole world of difference between player and a scrub 90% of the time.

quote: Anybody can 'own' a game if the person plays enough, no big deal with that

Really, then why dont you pickup chess and become famous. Or how about Texas hold em'. Why not make shitload of money if anyone can do it. Hell it beats working all day.

quote: You're just sounding like one of those flaming 'omg i pwnzed you noob!!' kids

Im guessing english isnt ur first language, cause u obviously dont see that i try.

you dont believe me? i even have a fan in poly who likes my L337 personality. just ask spiffor. he thinks my post is entertaining....

	12-08-2004 00:37									#98
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quote: Playing street fighter is just playing the game 24/7 and knowing all the moves. It's rather pathetic

Dude come on. It takes about a day maybe to memorize all the Street Fighter moves.

quote: Anybody can 'own' a game if the person plays enough, no big deal with that

I had a friend tell me almost these exact 2 things before. Do you know why he said them? Because he's not particularly good at any game, no matter how hard he tries, and he doesn't want to accept that some people are naturally better at things than him, so it must be they play more.
Most people can become good or even great at things with enough practice, but they cannot become elite. You have to start with that. I'd bet any amount of money, that if one of you guys dedicated then next 5 years of your life to basketball and then we played, I would still wipe the floor with you. Similarly, if I dropped everything and played basketball exclusively for the next 5 years, despite all my hardwork I would never get near the level of an NBA superstar.

	12-08-2004 01:00									#99
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quote: I know my shits, but Id ratehr be wrong and correct my mistake and learn new things. So whats the problem? Own me. If you think im wrong just prove it fool.

Mate, I havent been screaming "leet speak" saying I know this and that, I told you my opinion and you start spazzing out, throwing tantrums because I question your knowledge of a game you havent played for 3 years. I like an arguement, but if I want one with a 13yo I'll go on any public server.

	12-08-2004 01:15									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Mate, I havent been screaming "leet speak" saying I know this and that, I told you my opinion and you start spazzing out, throwing tantrums because I question your knowledge of a game you havent played for 3 years. I like an arguement, but if I want one with a 13yo I'll go on any public server.

Your Opinion?????? LOL OMG WTF ROFL....

If you wanted to state ur n00b opinion on CS, then by all means do so and question it. Yes, thinking that CS has wide variety of balanced guns is YOUR OPINION. And I owned up that statement cause it was wrong on my very first post. The END. a simple "oh werd? bro i knew jackshit... no doubt" would have ended it. simlarily "dumbass u know jackshit this isnt this way its this way" would have owned up mine statement and ended it there. Thanks for posting useless posts like "good start sailor boy" to discredit me in some retarded fashion without knowing ****. and taking the discussion to a whole new level of immaturity by trying to discredit me with stupidity. have a nice day. It was fun talking to you.

well on public forums "its was simply my opinion" is an equivalent of "im wrong and dumb... ill back away now from arguing cause its opinion blah blah ohmygod safety of the prhase opinion!!! waaa awesome!elveln!!11!" so sure. whatever.

I dont think people still get the irony behind my immature L337 sp33k.... so funny so funny....

	13-08-2004 09:45									#101
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great thread. i'm trying to figure out why so many people get worked up over this topic. obviously i understand zero's pov because i generally agree with him but i really don't get the total disdain for skilled gamers. especially because i have a feeling many of those expressing contempt are or were skilled gamers themselves(but at a different game). maquiladora or trajanus care to explain it to me? or are you guys just fanboys for your own games(sof for trajanus? and cs/civ for maquiladora?)?

	14-08-2004 02:25									#102
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I dont have any disdain at all for skilled gamers pg, i just dont consider it a "sport" in the old fashioned sense.

Im not a fanboy of CS either, look further back in this thread and i say Q3 and CS are both excellent, and its silly to compare them, but I do like discussing the good and bad of each game. Although im not any kind of expert of Q3, i do play it occaionally. I'm a fanboy of CtP2 because its generally always knocked by people who dont know what theyre talking about, but CS doesnt need another fanboy.

I've been playing a lot of CS Team Deathmatch (spawning immediately). Its fun. If you prefer Q3 you should give it a try. Its only a server-side mod on regular CS maps right now but theres plans for CSDM only maps.

	14-08-2004 05:18									#103
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Sure I'm a fanboy of my own game cos I think that's the game and everything else is ****, no kidding.

I also wasn't talking about chess or texas hold'em because that are games that require wit, bluf, or in chess: brains. Chess I truly respect a lot.

It just happens to be that the best players I see are those who play the game, ... a lot. That and they have a good rig and a good connection with good tweaks. It's pretty obvious that the more you play the game the better you get at it. No wonder why progamers play frikking 4 hours a day to keep their skills.
In an FPS game it really doesn't require much thought and anticipating other people's moves to know what they're going to do. I've seen some Q3 1v1 games at LANs and most of the time they're just running away from eachother, shooting rockets in specific corners because they time it so they expect their opponent to show up behind that corner. That's just... no fun but that's my opinion right.

I consider skill as corner reflexes and aim. The rest anybody with a good set of brains can handle. I really hate running cowards which is why I mostly play team CTF. You've got no other option than to capture eachother's flag.

PS: Zero I'm not talking about your leetspeak, I know you're doing it on purpose, I'm just talking about your style of discussing.

	14-08-2004 05:22									#104
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What I was trying to say:

If you are of average intelligence you know the game inside out just like all the other gamers so that makes the fight even. All that matters then is your reflexes and your aim. You can only train that by gaming a LOT. Some not as easily as others but in the end everybody can play like a champ if they practice it enough.

I've had numerous dumbasses in my class who got better school results than me just cause they learned like hell for it while I didn't. Same thing here. Most of the ppl that are good and that I know play a whole ****ing lot. I don't know any good player who plays a game casually for an hour or so when he finds the time, but that's just me I guess

	14-08-2004 09:11									#105
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trajnus? my style of discussion? well... if u are talking about me making fun of u for being SOF player earlier. I meant that as a sarcasm because i know how it is to be a fan of a game that is unappreciated.

Just rubbing one in.


Going back to the whole talent VS practice thing. Yes most pros that want to be on top practice alot. But theres also talent involved too. If you don't have both you aren't going to be on the top. Some people rely more on talent, some people rely on practice.

Even in FPS, some mindgame is required. If you have knowledge of a game, you have a strategy. If you have a strategy, you can predict what your opponent is going to do. If you can predict an opponent, you have urself a mindgame. And you can develop a counter strategy. I notice this in every head to head kind of game. You may not be thinking conciously that you are making strategic decisions, but if you are good, you would be reacting against what your opponent is trying to do, and trying to put a counter measure against him. AFAIK, only sports that dont have this kind is ones that dont have any player interactions.

As David Sirlin once said, game can only be begin to be played when two opponents fully understand the nature of the game. And sadly most people don't really bother to understand. What good is a basketball if you cant play with the team, play zone defense and pick... its just going to be a chaotic frenzy with people trying to throw ball into the basket. Even if certain game may not have the depth of Chess or poker, you need to good thinking to win the game.

Trajnus, maybe people you see around is trying to much to rely on practice. You maybe the smartest QB out there but in the end, when you cant throw for jack, you're not gonna be much good to your team. Then again, you might be the dumbest QB in existence that goes for hail mary 90% of the time but have the sickest arm. Then again it can be reversed. Maybe you're so smart you know your limitation and work with it. playing short gains and QB rushes very wisely. And dumb QB might get foiled for having no depth to his gameplay. It depends on where your balance lies. Do you rely on pure physical/skill/dexterity/strength or wit and strategy to make the player that you are.

	14-08-2004 09:28									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus I consider skill as corner reflexes and aim. The rest anybody with a good set of brains can handle. I really hate running cowards which is why I mostly play team CTF. You've got no other option than to capture eachother's flag.

Thats funny cause I consider a perfect offensive team game as one that doesnt require any fighting. I run away and only exchange fire when passing by for the most part.

Fighting a needless fight is a waste of teams resource imo.

	14-08-2004 13:45									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Going back to the whole talent VS practice thing. Yes most pros that want to be on top practice alot. But theres also talent involved too. If you don't have both you aren't going to be on the top. Some people rely more on talent, some people rely on practice.

Just like any sport.

And the talented ones are all that is left when the dust settles.

	15-08-2004 06:15									#108
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also if you could post which subcategory to find these Persistant worlds, that'd be great

	15-08-2004 06:22									#109
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That may depend on the game yeah. I prefer face to face action
Same goes for football (or soccer if you want) etc etc... I prefer some good southern samba football than that boring english kick'n ruh football

	15-08-2004 09:03									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I dont have any disdain at all for skilled gamers pg, i just dont consider it a "sport" in the old fashioned sense.

well maybe i read your posts wrong but i sensed a negative attitude for skilled gamers. sports used to be considering a waste of time just as electronic games are now. when i'm 50 that'll probably have changed though as in reality doing things via the mind is much more powerful force than anything physical. games teach thought processes which are really useful in real life(more so than sports imo) and i think that is why they'll eventually be taken seriously.

	15-08-2004 10:43									#111
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PG.... histroy always repeats itself dont it?

And sports is still seen negatively, although its dying concept. Why are jocks often seen as dumb? sports is still seen as brainless... especially depending on amount of physical activity required... Another excuses by those who lose. 'Oh I'm losing because everyone is stronger than me, therefore there must be nothing else involved...' Most people are so obsessed with unfairness in physical attributes that they dont realize even if you can run just as fast and throw just as strong, if you dont know how to play the game right, you wont win.

btw, i agree on video game being much better for thought process than sports too. Although thers nothign less complex mindgame wise... I think the main reason being that in sports ur physical ability is a factor. Just by running faster, throwing faster, you can overpower some of talent and strategies. And if the gap is significant, you can completely dominate it with it alone even.

I guess theres really no way to equalize talent. So competitive wise I guess thats as good and "fair" it could get.

Last edited by Zero on 15-08-2004 at 10:51

	16-08-2004 02:11									#112
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yeah, having better natural physical talent in a sport is like having a better internet connection or more frames per second in quake. most pro gamers are generally equal in terms of pc/connection so the mind games and tactics/strategies/etc become more important. where as in real sports physical attributes are usually more important. physical ability in real sports is further magnified by the fact that you need to be able to athletically do certain things to implement various plays.