25-06-2004 18:03									#1
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Looking good.
One little suggestion. How about changing this:

• Retro-engineering allowed

to this:

• Retro-engineering allowed, except for using the probe rover chassis before researhing Doc. Mobility

?

	25-06-2004 18:09									#2
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what about crawlers suplying with no moves left ~ formers with no moves left?
(u can click them and then press o even if greyed out)

	25-06-2004 18:10									#3
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Maniac: Any reasoning? I'd prefer a blanket rule for simplicity unless there is a good reason for caveats?

	25-06-2004 18:11									#4
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quote: Originally posted by -SafaN- what about crawlers suplying with no moves left ~ formers with no moves left? (u can click them and then press o even if greyed out)

That's fine, just like it's fine for formers. It's the bug of getting moves back, by clicking them again, that's disallowed.

	25-06-2004 18:13									#5
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Personally I have no problem with putting them on supply on end of move. Besides, if we'd forbid it, the only difference would be that people move their crawler 2/3 of a movement point (on roads of course) instead of a full movement point before reassigning them to supply resources. It would only increase the PIA factor.

	25-06-2004 18:16									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Maniac: Any reasoning? I'd prefer a blanket rule for simplicity unless there is a good reason for caveats?

If retro-engineering the probe team design is allowed, people can build rovers once they have Planetary Networks, and without even needing to research Doctrine:Mobility.

Edit: Extra argument: AFAIK this rule against probe rover retro-engineering exists in every PBEM.

	25-06-2004 18:25									#7
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I'll accept those rules, and in case Maniac's modification comes in the ruleset, I accept that too.

	25-06-2004 19:57									#8
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I have not voted, because exactly what Maniac mentioned (retro-engineering probe team). I cannot vote yes before this is corrected.

I would also like to ask about the upgrade before attack thing, didn't we decide to forbidden it? Also is it the decision that choppers can never attack the base?

	25-06-2004 20:33									#9
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I too have not voted. As the Angels are in this game, they can immediately build rover units under the proposed rules, thus negating the Spartan faction advantage

quote: Extracted freom proposed Rules It is not allowed to set the home base (Control-h) for a unit to be the base of another faction when the diplomatic stance is pact. The unit will then require no support from either faction.

I thought that had been corrected in release smax #2

quote: extracted from the readme.txt · You can no longer have a pact brother support one of your factions units.

	25-06-2004 20:40									#10
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Haven't voted yet...

We should add the prohibition on retro-engineering from probes. I consider this very important.

Upgrading and attacking on the same turn is usually prohibited, and I prefer it that way.

We should add, "Using the 'i' key for airdrops will ensure compliance." Otherwise people could easily lose track of which units have already dropped.

I think it's ok for crawlers to upgrade/gather with no movement remaining. Not allowing this does nothing but add a hassle.

	25-06-2004 23:04									#11
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I went back in and voted, as the "View results" showed a 7 - 1 majority in favor of accepting them as they are. Didn't want our objections to just get railroaded aside.

I suggest other "yes, but" players also vote no - remember, this is a Democracy game, and the will of the majority prevails

G.

	25-06-2004 23:13									#12
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I know that repolling is considered nowadays the spawn of all that is evil in the world, but this retro-engineering question is pretty important, considering that it's basic stuff in PBEM's too.

So I suggest a repoll, or we could accept the rules now as they are and then amend them with a new poll that will decide whether we'll restrict retroengineering (but that might take longer and postpone the game, again).

	25-06-2004 23:49									#13
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quote: I thought that had been corrected in release smax #2

Yeah I forgot to remove it from the list.
There's also the issue of bases that revolt to another faction. That's also a bit an outdated point. Now another poll seems fine to use Codicil, a revolted base could just be returned to its original owner. However we can always decide that later.

quote: So I suggest a repoll

Considering that in my original post on which Drogue has more or less based this poll retro-engineering the probe rover chassis was forbidden, considering that no one had objected to it there, and considering that here too in this thread about everyone seems to be in favour of not allowing probe rover retro-engineering, can't we just consider it accepted without a repoll?

	25-06-2004 23:57									#14
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quote: Considering that in my original post on which Drogue has more or less based this poll retro-engineering the probe rover chassis was forbidden, considering that no one had objected to it there, and considering that here too in this thread about everyone seems to be in favour of not allowing probe rover retro-engineering, can't we just consider it accepted without a repoll?

Of course, I'd be more than happy to consider it accepted without a poll. I just want to make sure that, should I vote "YEA" in this poll, it won't mean that someone can point back to this when they are caught doing probe rover retro-engineering and use it to justify their actions.

	26-06-2004 00:04									#15
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and that's exactly my point, Kass

	26-06-2004 00:11									#16
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Indeed, Googlie. That's why we need a solid and uncontestably clear message and decision that there won't be that kind of retroengineering - "just about everyone" doesn't really necessarily cut the mustard. (Muster? Whatever)

	26-06-2004 00:13									#17
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Hopefully Drogue would amend his first post. I will wait for a little bit more until Drogue says he's going to do it or another before I cast my vote.

	26-06-2004 00:14									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac If retro-engineering the probe team design is allowed, people can build rovers once they have Planetary Networks, and without even needing to research Doctrine:Mobility. Edit: Extra argument: AFAIK this rule against probe rover retro-engineering exists in every PBEM.

Point taken, and amended. Sorry, should have included that at first, as per your suggestion. If anyone wishes to change their vote, please do so, otherwise I think we can continue as before.

	26-06-2004 00:16									#19
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Ok I voted yes.

	26-06-2004 00:29									#20
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Drogue

Voted YEA.

	26-06-2004 01:16									#21
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I blindly voted YEA without reading the post. Start the game already!

	26-06-2004 01:21									#22
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With things cleared up now, yes.

	26-06-2004 02:49									#23
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I voted "Yes", to nullify Googlie's "No" vote and make the poll more representative of opinion

	26-06-2004 02:54									#25
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Is that DL allowed to post Googlie ?

	26-06-2004 02:56									#26
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He just want to show off, considering the remoteness of the need to nullify his vote.

	26-06-2004 02:58									#27
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Just joking. Interesting way to nulify a vote though.

	26-06-2004 03:01									#28
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I was blessed by Mark himself (Rynn is/was a prolific author in the Spartan Chronicles, and having her name appear on a post there gave flavor to the story, as it referred to a specific series of events in the plot (as, too, did Paula Forbes and Slats - although I gave over that character/persona to another)

Rynn is still alive as there is intention (hope?) to get the Chrinicles finished

I only use it to test stuff (like checking on Kody's back-door entrance to the other private forums last game) where my "Googlie" cookie wouldn't let it work

G.

	26-06-2004 07:54									#29
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I accepted the ammended rules.

	26-06-2004 08:09									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I only use it to test stuff G.

Her