14-08-2004 04:12									#121
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod I look at Valencia, who got about as many points as Arsenal did, and most of their players are unknowns, whereas Arsenal is filled with well known internationals.

So when were Arsenal in two champions league finals and when did they win something in europe like the UEFA cup? If Valencia can do that with a bunch of "unknowns" (i don't really think they are) then surely they must come from the better league.

	14-08-2004 21:45									#122
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Arsenal is getting better than they used to be-I don't even like Arsenal and I bet they will make the Champions League Final. But hey, this last year they did way better than Valencia. Valencia just beat a few eastern European teams and won the UEFA Cup. Arsenal had much better competition. And the same goes for AC Milan. If they hadn't been so cocky going into the second leg they probably would've made it to the final.

As for MLS promotion and relegation, it's just not there yet. MLS is a new league and a sport that isn't very popular in America yet. A city wouldn't want an expansion team if there was a good chance of it getting relegated. Before promotion and relegation they will build up the MLS with more teams and more popularity. After this is done and the league is bigger, more popular, and more stable, they might start a promotion and relegation system. This is what they did (still doing?) with the Japanese J-League.

	14-08-2004 22:11									#123
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I'll write more on why the Spanish league isn't as good as the EPL or Serie A.

Valencia compared to Arsenal and AC Milan is just one example. We can compare the second ranked teams also. I think that this might a rare only place where the Spanish team is close. But even then we're comparing Gallas, Cudicini, Veron, Crespo, Lampard, etc. to Ronaldinho (who is better than all of those players I must admit) to Kluivert, Overmars, Cocu, etc. Chelsea just has better players. Then there are the third place teams, Deportivo, Manchester United, and Juventus. Everyone thinks that Deportivo is such a great team since they beat AC Milan 4-1. The only reason that happened is because AC Milan completely outclassed Deportivo in the first leg and they got cocky. Deportivo has Valeron and Diego Tristan, two very solid internationals, but don't even try and compare them to some of the other third place teams' players, such as European footballer of the year Pavel Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Buffon, and Thuram., and for ManU: (even though I hate them, I can't deny the talent of their players) Ruud van Nistelrooy, Christiano Ronaldo and about every other decent forward, Giggs, Silvestre, Ferdinand, Howard, etc. Down to 4th place teams we have Real Madrid, Inter Milan, and Liverpool. Inter and Liverpool have very well known internationals on their team, but not as much as Real. But Real has a horrible defense and a very underachieving team that is playing horribly. Down to 5th place we have Newcastle, Parma, and Athletico Bilbao. That's where I'll stop because I have to go to work.