10-08-2004 04:34									#1
	Give me some EPL info! Increase Your PM Length

Ok, ok. As some you may know I'm a Yank who has great intrerest in soccer. Every year I tell myself I'll start following the EPL (or the Bundesliga or Series A or, etc). Now I got Fox Sports World, so I can see a few games a week, I decided to go full tilt at it (it is difficult to follow a sport when it gets no media coverage in your home market). I've been reading previews of the season, but I thirst for more knowledge! What do you guys wish to share with me about European football that you think will help me out? And you don't just have to limit yourself to the EPL.. if you want to tell me something fun about the Dutch League (Zop ) go right ahead.

Oh, I know the basics. I know the Red Devils in Manchester (United) are the traditionally hated team, yet Arsenal recently is trying to take that throne (though the loss of Viera will apparently harm them greatly). I also know that Chelsea is trying to be the Yankees of the EPL and buy everyone that Abromowich (sp?) can afford.

Oh, and my fav team is Newcastle (as Aggie knows )... mostly because I love Alan Shearer.

	10-08-2004 04:52									#2
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Don't bother watching anything but the (english) premiership- only exception are the old firm games ( Glasgow rangers - Celtic Glascow) - the rest is boring and/or sub-par.
Ok, the Spanish top games can be good on a techical level, but that's about it.
WARNING!!!
Do not watch the Italian league, you risk to get off football for ever!!

	10-08-2004 08:38									#3
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Bueller?

	10-08-2004 10:59									#4
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I suggest Ryman League football. You can't beat the passion.

	10-08-2004 11:01									#5
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Oh, and EPL is an American-only acronym obviously. Never heard it before.

	10-08-2004 13:58									#6
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OK - you asked for it.

In the Premier League, the same teams win all the time. They also happen to be the richest teams - this hasn't stopped fans of poorer teams speculating about bribery and match fixing as a way of compensating for the poor performance of their teams.

This year, the winner will be one of Chelsea, Arsenal, or Man United: probably Arsenal if the form book holds. The relegation battle will probably be more interesting, especially since Sunderland are no longer in the PL (they are a dead cert for relegation usually).

Some info on the teams.

Arsenal

Current league champions and the present team are probably one of the finest to ever play in the English Leagues. Known to their fans as "The Gunners" or "The Arse". Have been quite successful since ending a nearly twenty year title drought in 1989. Dominated the league in the 1930s using the offside trap IIRC.

Great players of the past: Charlie George (70s), Tony Adams (90s)

Hated most by: Spurs fans.

This season: will win.


Aston Villa

Boring gobshite team who haven't done anything in years (won title in 1981, an aberration). Frankly, they are mediocrity defined. Known as "The Villans". Birmingham City are the "real" Brum team.

Great players of the past: ?

Hated by: Birmingham City fans.

This season: nothing (again).


Birmingham City

The other Birmingham team ("The Blues"). They will have trouble staying up, but should make it. A battling team with a great manager in Steve Bruce. Not a team with a history of success.

Hated by: Villa fans.

This season: clear of relegation but in the lower half of the table.


Blackburn Rovers

With Souness in charge they are definite relegation candidates. The story of this team is a century of uselessness ended when a millionaire fan bought the team and subsidized the team into the PL which they won in the mid 90s (among other things, they bought Alan Shearer). Since then, they haven't been so hot.

Great players of the past: Alan Shearer (90s)

Hated by: Man U fans, nobody else.

This season: relegation candidates.


Bolton Wanderers

Another old club with a proud history that has had some success recently after years of nothing. Were the losing team in the "Matthews" final of 1953 (probably the best cup final ever played). Had a really excellent season last year (8th) and manager Sam Allardyce is a real character.

This season: top half.

Hated by: no-one I can think of.


Charlton Athletic

"The Addicks". Another club enjoying recent success. An excellent 7th place last year. Alan Curbishley is a fine manager and they should do well this season.

This season: top half.


Chelsea

Fairly wealthy club that was bought recently by a Russian gangster who has thrown money at it in what appears to be a fit of insanity. Some cup success in recent years, but no league joy.

Great players of the past: Peter Osgood

Hated by: Arsenal, Spurs

This season: will compete for the title, 2nd.

Crystal Palace

What goes up, must come down.

Nuff said.


Everton

Famous as the "other" Liverpool club. Known for some reason as "The Toffees" They suck right now, apart from that Rooney kid (if he hasn't gone already).

Great players of the past: Dixie Dean (20s), Tommy Lawton (30s), Gary Lineker (80s)

Hated by: Liverpool.

This season: going down I think.


Fulham

Another club rescued from obscurity by a rich guy, in this case Mohammed Al-Fayed, the owner of the famous Harrods Department Store.

Great players of the past: Johnny Haynes

This season: mid table.


Liverpool

"The Reds". A bit of a joke these days. Liverpool were the dominant team in England and Europe from the late 70s well into the 80s. Since 1990 the team has ranged from average to useless. Right now they aren't going anywhere.

Great players of the past: Kevin Keegan, Ray Clemence, Kenny Dalglish, Alan Hansen, Ian Rush and a crapload more.

Hated by: Everton fans

This season: 5th place.


Manchester City

The team that people who live in Manchester support.

Hated by: Man United


Manchester United

"The Scum". A team supported by Malaysians and various other groups of people who have never been to Manchester. A bunch of arrogant, cheating tossers who are hated throughout the world. Their fans are all "glory hunters" (people who follow them as long as they win).

Great players of the past: Denis Law, Bobby Charlton, Bryan Robson, Eric Cantona and many others.

Hated by: everyone else.

This season: second


Middlesbrough

"The Smoggies" A boring dour team from a boring dour city. They are so crap that it took them until this year to actually win anything, and then it was only the league cup which no-one gives a **** about.

Great players: are you kidding?

Hated by: Newcastle fans; anyone who's been to Middlesbrough.

This year: who cares?


Newcastle United

Great Edwardian team, and in the 20s. Great cup team in the 50s. So so since then. Reborn in the 90s (after several false starts) and now a rung below the really big clubs. A good squad this year, let down by a weak midfield.

Great players: Hugh Gallacher (20s); Jackie Milburn (50s); Malcolm MacDonald (70s); Kevin Keegan, Chris Waddle, Peter Beardsley (80s); Alan Shearer (90s).

Hated by: Sunderland; Boro.

This year: top 8.


Norwich City

"The Canaries". Back in the top flight after a gap of some years. Will find it hard to stay up.
Hated by: Ipswich Town fans.

This year, relegation material.


Portsmouth

"Pompey". A silk purse made from a sow's ear. They'll stay up. Just.


Southampton

"the Saints" Perennially shitty team which. if there was any justice in the world, should have been relegated a long time ago.

This season: bottom half.


Tottenham Hotspur

"The Spurs". Used to be a good team, but rubbish now. Bottom half this season.


West Bromwich Albion





Well - that's my view.

	10-08-2004 14:04									#7
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quote: "The Reds". A bit of a joke these days. Liverpool were the dominant team in England and Europe from the late 70s well into the 80s. Since 1990 the team has ranged from average to useless. Right now they aren't going anywhere.

In the mid 90s they would have won a lot if David James wasn't kidnapped by vampires and hence develop a fear of crosses.

	10-08-2004 14:09									#8
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quote: Arsenal Current league champions and the present team are probably one of the finest to ever play in the English Leagues. Known to their fans as "The Gunners" or "The Arse". Have been quite successful since ending a nearly twenty year title drought in 1989. Dominated the league in the 1930s using the offside trap IIRC. Great players of the past: Charlie George (70s), Tony Adams (90s) Hated most by: Spurs fans. This season: will win.

Also hated by everyone for their whinging fans and boring football. "boring, boring arsenal", "one - nil to the ars-a-nil" and the only reason David Seaman stayed in the England team for so long.

	10-08-2004 14:11									#9
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Sure, the Graham teams were boring as hell, but the only time you hear "boring, boring Arsenal" with Wenger's team is when they are 4-0 up.

quote: In the mid 90s they would have won a lot if David James wasn't kidnapped by vampires and hence develop a fear of crosses.

Didn't he blame his performance on too much Nintendo?

	10-08-2004 14:13									#10
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quote: Didn't he blame his performance on too much Nintendo?

It would not surprise me if he came up with a half baked story like that.

	10-08-2004 14:20									#11
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quote: Sure, the Graham teams were boring as hell, but the only time you hear "boring, boring Arsenal" with Wenger's team is when they are 4-0 up.

Theyre still boring. They need to get rid of highbury, its too small and encourages the same type of game from them week in, week out.

	10-08-2004 14:27									#12
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quote: Theyre still boring. They need to get rid of highbury, its too small and encourages the same type of game from them week in, week out.

You are joking, right? Are you a Spurs supporter or something? Arsenal play the most attractive, attacking football in the league. They are the best team to watch since Kevin Keegan's Black & White Brazil of the mid-nineties.

	10-08-2004 14:43									#13
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Theyre boring, they play the same game every week and most teams fall for it or **** up somehow. Always along the floor to Henry and the half backs step up towards the half way line to play the offside trap and fail. Its boring football. I remember when Henry complained after the England - France game at Euro2004, saying we were defending so far back and not giving him room to make any runs, i mean he was actually disgusted by our tactics of sucessfully not giving him a chance. He gets it easy in the premiership.

	10-08-2004 14:45									#14
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The difference with Newcastle is, they scored from all over, not just set-pieces and along the floor. And they had players people liked.

	10-08-2004 14:53									#15
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Birmingham will do better han bottom half i reckon.

	10-08-2004 16:56									#16
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Southampton to go down. Liverpool 4th (well, I would say that ). Chelsea may well win simply because they have more strength in depth in their squad than Man U or Arsenal.

For the 2005-06 season Liverpool will win the Premiership as Benitez will have them playing his way by then.

	10-08-2004 17:11									#17
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quote: "The Reds". A bit of a joke these days. Liverpool were the dominant team in England and Europe from the late 70s well into the 80s. Since 1990 the team has ranged from average to useless. Right now they aren't going anywhere.

Except when they won the UEFA Cup

They're not going nowhere. Some good decisions were made actually in getting rid of Houllier and Heskey. The team has potential, much potential, and we'll see if Benitez can exploit it.

	10-08-2004 17:15									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui if you want to tell me something fun about the Dutch League (Zop ) go right ahead.

From a competitive standpoint, it's boring because Ajax will be superior once again

From a football standpoint, it's not that bad. There's usually a very offensive mentality, quite the opposite of the Italian "work football".

	10-08-2004 17:43									#19
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Thanks guys... Aggie, do you think the losing of Viera (which I hear is basically done) to Real will jeopardize Arsenal's 1st rating? Or do you think they can whether it? It seems many publications are picking Abramowich's plaything, Chelsea, as being the top of the board this year.

Oh Zop, all I really know about Dutch football is that Ajax is very good and PSV Eindhoven seems to enjoy being a European elite farm team .

	10-08-2004 17:54									#20
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The Viera deal isn't done yet. The rumours that Real are sniffing around after Michael Owen again may mean that the Viera deal could fall through and Real want Owen so they can say they signed another star player this year.

Wenger isn't stupid. If Viera goes he has a plan to deal with that by now. It will make life harder for Arsenal but they are still definitely top three material even if they lose Viera.

	10-08-2004 21:01									#21
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quote: Except when they won the UEFA Cup

Who cares about third rate European trophies, we are talking about the PL. I mean, Newcastle have won that one (when it was the Fairs Cup) so it can't be that great.

	10-08-2004 21:06									#22
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As a Spurs supporter I think we might go down this season. Too many second class signings again in the off season (except Robinson, best English GK available IMO).

	10-08-2004 21:10									#23
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quote: As a Spurs supporter...

I KNEW IT!!!!

	10-08-2004 21:17									#24
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It does say who i support on the fanatasy premierleague. But you dont sound like you support Newcastle

	10-08-2004 21:37									#25
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quote: It does say who i support on the fanatasy premierleague. But you dont sound like you support Newcastle

I love them, I'm just a realist.

	10-08-2004 21:54									#26
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quote: I'm just a realist.

Ah, best way to be. I saw Shearer on tv last week talking them up, sounding like he'll be the manager when Bobby leaves at the end of this season.

	10-08-2004 22:23									#27
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It is great to see fellow continentals with an interest in football. And gj Imran, it is about time traditional American sports fans like you starting to take an interest in such a great sport. Hopefully you can tell your friends and spread the word. Watch MLS too. It certainly isn't as good as EPL, but it has improved much in the last few years, and it needs support to get better. I rank it quite highly in level of play, as you will see later in the post. I decided my favorite team was Leeds a few years back because they had that great combination in Kewell and Viduka. I never really started intensely following the sport until last year. I don't get Fox Sports World, so I just read about them on the internet all of the time. I use premierleague.com, bbc.com, uefa.com, and ESPN's soccernet.com. Now Leeds has been relegated, but hopefully they will be back. I am not a frontrunner. All of my favorite teams: 49ers, Mariners, Sonics, Leeds, are all struggling right now.

The problem with EPL is its mix with sports and business. Newly promoted teams always get knocked back to D1 because they don't have the money to compete with teams like Arsenal and ManU. And then billionaires come and take over the teams and get them tons of money. It is really horrible. I'd love it if all countries had to adopt a salary cap.

Anyway, here is my ranking of the leagues. Most people think EPL is the third best league in the world, and I don't know many people that think it is better than the Spanish league, but I do. I think the Spanish league is overrated because the players in it can dribble. The Englishmen don't because it is just not their style of play, so they never learned how. And I put Serie A at the top. I think it is funny how people say it is boring defensive football but it averages more goals per game than La Liga or EPL. But, I digress.

1. Italy (remember these are leagues, not national teams)
2. England
3. Spain
4. Germany
5. France
6. Holland
7. Portugal
8. Argentina
9. Brazil
10. Belgium
11. Scotland
12. Turkey
13. Greece
14. Mexico
15. MLS

Afterwards would probably be the Scandinavian leagues, Eastern European Leagues, and the Colombian league maybe.

And here is how I rank the club teams (as of last season's performance though, for example Porto won't be nearly as good because their good players have been bought, but they were good last year so I ranked them high, in other words I am ranking last seasons teams):

1. AC Milan
2. Arsenal
3. Real Madrid
4. Juventus
5. Chelsea
6. Manchester United
7. Inter Milan
8. Deportivo
9. Roma
10.Barcelona
11.Bayern Munchen
12.Valencia
13.Lyon
14.Bremen
15.Porto
16.Monaco
17.Ajax
18.Liverpool
19.Celtic
20.Anderlecht
21.Parma
22.Stuttgart
23.Leverkusen
24.PSG
25.Galatasaray

And the players:

Top Strikers:

1. Thierry Henry
2. Ronaldo
3. Raul
4. Alessandro Del Piero
5. Ruud van Nistelrooij

Top Midfielders:

1. Zinedine Zidane
2. Ronaldinho
3. Pavel Nedved
4. Luis Figo
5. Frank Lampard

Top Defenders:

1. Roberto Carlos
2. Paolo Maldini
3. Cafu
4. Mikael Silvestre
5. Rio Ferdinand

Top Goalkeepers:

1. Oliver Kahn (though he's getting really old)
2. Gianluigi Buffon
3. Dida
4. Tim Howard
5. Carlo Cudicini

	10-08-2004 22:53									#28
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Well I did JUST start to take an interest in soccer . I played it for many years and have been interested in the World Cup for many years. Its just I haven't gotten into the leagues as much, except just a bit from the side. I did keep up with MLS, but when I moved to Atlanta from Jersey, I couldn't really keep up much with the Metrostars as I could up there.

	10-08-2004 23:22									#29
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quote: I think the Spanish league is overrated because the players in it can dribble. The Englishmen don't because it is just not their style of play, so they never learned how.

They do learn how, but its rare they make professionals because theyre usually kicked to **** when theyre kids for keeping the ball too long

quote: And I put Serie A at the top. I think it is funny how people say it is boring defensive football but it averages more goals per game than La Liga or EPL. But, I digress.

I would say goals dont make a game exciting. EPL is end to end stuff in most games, even boring teams like Everton v Middlesborough. Watching a lot of serie A on tv on sunday afternoons here, most of the time inbetween the goal scoring was spent strolling around and passing the ball around the back 4 for half an hour.

	11-08-2004 00:31									#30
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quote: Ah, best way to be. I saw Shearer on tv last week talking them up, sounding like he'll be the manager when Bobby leaves at the end of this season.

I agree. I'm torn about Shearer being the manager. I think he will do a good job and will have the fans onside from the start. However, when he gets sacked it will be really bad for the club (the Keegan debacle was bad enough). One only has to look at McFaul to see what happens to former heroes.

It's a pity Joe Harvey is dead.