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Eivind IV is offline Eivind IV
Prince
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
Aug 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 08-09-2004 19:26 Visit Eivind IV's homepage!
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Me me me!

eivindaeATyahooDOTno

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 08-09-2004 20:02 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Tech, you have a hand-picked crew of commandos now!

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
  Old Post 08-09-2004 20:45 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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On to Berlin! Put an end to popups!

I'ts been a Hell of a Highway, but this baby's DONE!

3 allied plans, 9 random scenarios, 27 possibilities! And the best art available, thanks to Fairline.

It looks like I've got my three playtesters, that's great! There's 3 different options for the Allied player (did I mention that?). If each one of you would take one plan and play it completely through at least once by the end of the weekend, I will still be on track for my 60th anniversary launch. In particular, I need you to keep detailed notes on WHICH TURN allied airborne reinforcements arrive, where and what units. Also which turn any pop-up text displays. If this is agreeable, please email me at *brisonATshawDOTca*. I'll send the files and your assigned plan. Thanks!

I have one minor, but annoying glitch. Engineers use the 'transform terrain' order to repair canal bridges. The order doesn't pop up on the menu, though by pressing the 'o' key, the job gets done. Is there a particular technology needed by the Allies to get the order to display?

Leonidas is offline Leonidas
King

May 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 08-09-2004 21:32
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Got spare money?

Cool

I'll be looking forward to playing this puppy when she's done.

Cheers!

Mercator is offline Mercator
King
Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:17
  Old Post 08-09-2004 22:09 Visit Mercator's homepage!
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I thought transforming required Explosives, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems that all units with engineering abilities can always transform terrain.

From what I just tested, if you're using the Engineer slot, the transform option will be enabled in the menu. If you're using the engineer unit flag, the option will be disabled, but you can transform by pressing 'o' anyway.

That looks like a simple bug. They forgot to adjust the menu option enabling/disabling for the added engineer flag.


Oh wait, you're not seeing the transform option at all. That's an entirely different problem...

The transform option only appears on the menu if you have the prerequisite tech of the unit in the Engineer slot any unit with engineering abilities. If any of the engineers have nil as a prerequisite, you don't need any prerequisites for the option to show up.

What I said earlier still holds though, only for the "real" engineer will that option ever be enabled.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
  Old Post 09-09-2004 04:49 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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Thanks Jorritt. After a bit of quick experimenting based on your tip, I found the unit with engineer abilities ALSO needs 'nil' for the obsolete tech. But I don't want the engineer (or any other unit) to be buildable.

No problemo, I says. This is Test of Time. I'll just use the @UNITS_ADVANCED field and make this unit unbuildable by the Allies. Well that cancels the transform menu just as surely as not having the pre-req. So, I'll just have to add a note in the readme saying that if you want to build a Bailey Bridge, you gotta press 'o'.

Anyways, this thing went far smoother than any previous effort. I must be getting "experienced" or something.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 09-09-2004 14:23 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Good stuff, man!
I think you are one the experienced Civ veterans already.

You could also put in an events message about the bridge order.

fairline is offline fairline
Prince
of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 09-09-2004 21:22 Visit fairline's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
I must be getting "experienced" or something.


Mercator is offline Mercator
King
Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:17
  Old Post 10-09-2004 00:30 Visit Mercator's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
(...) Well that cancels the transform menu just as surely as not having the pre-req.




As far as customizability is concerned, Microprose always remained one card short of a full deck.

jim panse is offline jim panse
King
Anvilvania
Oct 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 10-09-2004 16:46
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Re: On to Berlin! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
3 allied plans, 9 random scenarios, 27 possibilities!


Which plan do you want me to carry out?

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
  Old Post 10-09-2004 20:12 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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Plan 'C'. Here's the Operational Order from the readme:

Plan C is an alternate plan used for Operation Market-Garden. The 1st Airborne is dropped several kilometers west of Arnhem. It's objective is the city of Arnhem and the bridge there. The 82nd Airborne is dropped east and south of Nijmegen. It's objective is the city of Grave and the bridge there and to take and hold the heights near Groesbeek. It should wait for the arrival of XXX Corps to attempt to capture Nijmegen, unless a good opportunity presents itself to storm the city. The 101st airborne will be held in reserve and dropped across the Neder Rijn to assist the 1st Airborne. XXX Corps should move north as quickly as possible, using the Sherman flail unit to clear minefields and engineer units to repair blown canal bridges. It must capture the towns of Son, Best and Veghel and should secure the bridges across the canals there as well as the road as far as Grave. Detachments should be left to defend these bridges and the road from Eindhoven to Grave against vigorous German counter-attacks expected from Sept 19 onwards. Once across the Waal River, it should join with the 82nd airborne to take Nijmegen and the bridge there. When this is done, advance to the Arnhem bridge, cross it, and join with the 1st airborne to sieze and hold Deelen. Secure a line of communications traversable by motorized units from your base at Lille St. Hubert and Lommel to Deelen at the end of the scenario and you win the game. Air superiority can only be expected for the first two days as aircraft will be reassigned to the strategic bombing of Germany after this time.

These are the victory conditions:

The Allied player wins if , at the end of the game, (s)he has captured the city of Deelen and has a minimum of 20 units within 3 squares of the city, at least 6 of which are armored (Sherman Firefly, Sherman V, Sherman flail , Cromwell or Dailmer armored car), AND can trace a line of supply from Deelen to both Lommel and Lille- St. Hubert. This line of supply must be traced from square to square, without crossing any impassible terrain or passing through any German units. It may pass through the zones of control of German units. Major rivers must be crossed at bridges for supply purposes - ferries may not be used. Failing to meet these conditions at the time the scenario ends means an Allied decisive defeat. Ignore the pop-up box telling you if you've won or lost.

Good luck, General!

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
  Old Post 11-09-2004 13:24 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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Drop in with the 1st Airborne! Increase Your PM Length

The Readme and the intro-movie are now available on my web site. It's still on target for release next Friday, the 60th anniversary of the start of Market-Garden.

http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/OM-G/OM-G_home.html

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 11-09-2004 14:20 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Bladdy fine work, techumseh!

Such dedication to the civ art really sets the standard!



Especially the Readme with the ToT help and patch links - Bravo!

Everyone should have Tech's site on their favourites!

jim panse is offline jim panse
King
Anvilvania
Oct 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 11-09-2004 15:50
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Ok Brian, I spent the last 90 minutes with your latest work and I am more than impressed by it

Since I am also a playtester, here you go with the reports of my first 2 turns! Sorry, I have not had more time yet, expect more feedback within the next days!

Attachment: market garden playtest report.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

beingofone is offline beingofone
Warlord
U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:17
  Old Post 12-09-2004 13:54 Visit beingofone's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

Great looking scenario- I will have to try this. Kind of like Close Combat 2 with Civ - Cool

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 12-09-2004 15:32 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Yep - Tech has shown his mastery of the ToT art again!

Eivind IV is offline Eivind IV
Prince
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
Aug 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 13-09-2004 15:05 Visit Eivind IV's homepage!
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#107 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Ok, I havn't gotten the scen in my mailbox, but don't bother anyway. I just moved, and forgot my TOT CD in my old house. I'll get it mailed up, but I doubt it will come before the 60th aniversiry. But from the play test reports here I can't wait to try it!

Last edited by Eivind IV on 13-09-2004 at 15:20

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 13-09-2004 20:31 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Are you keeping the beta under wraps until release, Tech?

jim panse is offline jim panse
King
Anvilvania
Oct 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 13-09-2004 22:42
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Here is what I´ve got so far

I played up to Turn 11/12. More tomorrow.

So far I admit this is one of the best scenarios ever made in my humble opinion.

Attachment: market garden playtest report.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

AGRICOLA is offline AGRICOLA
Prince
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:17
  Old Post 13-09-2004 23:52
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#110 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Reading the playtest I was puzzled by one thing, what or who is the 88th Airborne?

Just to make sure, I looked up Market Garden Order of Battle on the Web. Sure enough, there was the 1st British Aiborne and the 82nd and 101st US, but no 88th of any nationality.

Do you perchance mean the 82nd?


Finally got my TOT. What a thoroughly disgusting palette. Looks like it was selected by a manic depressive who was having a really bad day.

However, can't wait to try out ABTF.

jim panse is offline jim panse
King
Anvilvania
Oct 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 14-09-2004 00:41
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Doh! Stupid me. I always meant the 82nd. Argh.

@ AGRICOLA: Say, this a report the designer can get some feedback?

AGRICOLA is offline AGRICOLA
Prince
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:17
  Old Post 14-09-2004 01:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Pense
Say, this a report the designer can get some feedback?


Could you please clarify your question. I suspect that you may be giving me hell for butting in with an inappropriate post. If so, please accept my sincere apologies.

jim panse is offline jim panse
King
Anvilvania
Oct 2002
time: 06:17
  Old Post 14-09-2004 02:00
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If I would also use predicates it would be easier to understand.

I meant: Is this a report a creator can work with? I know you always provide people with excellent feedback. So I wanted to know if you were a creator: Could you work with that kind of feedback?

AGRICOLA is offline AGRICOLA
Prince
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:17
  Old Post 14-09-2004 02:47
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If I correctly understand techumseh's interest in when events happen and where, when and what German units show up then your report is great. I believe that his concern may be less with what you do and more with what the Germans force you to do. IMO, your report covers this excellently.

I really wish that I had the scen so that I wouldn't be talking off the top of my head about it. The only thing that I might add would be the results of any recce that locates German units and concentrations in the vicinity of Allied forces. This might help the designer determine if events is doing its job.

Sorry to butt in with my earlier post but I am really interested in this scen. I'm looking forward to Friday only slightly less anxiously than a 5-year old looks forward to Christmas.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
  Old Post 14-09-2004 03:25 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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@Jim Panse: Sounds like you're doing very well so far. Thank you for the detailed reports. Yes, the creator is pleased.

You may want to review the bridge blowing section of the readme, though. Those sappers on the main bridges aren't defending it. They're trigger units (each one is different), and killing them is just the start of your problems. For each one you've killed, there is now an identical barbarian, sapper unit within 3-4 squares. It's invisible, but not to the AI. If the Germans kill it first, the bridge will be blown. Good luck!

@AGRICOLA: Thanks for your interest. Friday is just 4 sleeps away! Actually, it's the arrival of the ALLIED reinforcements that I'm mainly interested in. These events are the most complex I've ever tried, and I want to be sure the right units arrive at the right time and place, given which of the 3 plans is selected.

@Curt: Thanks for the positive feedback. Try the website now.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 14-09-2004 17:14 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Cheers, Tech!

Exile is offline Exile
King
of the Benighted Realms
Sep 2000
time: 23:17
  Old Post 15-09-2004 01:06
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Brian I am very interested in how the multiple scn files trick plays out. When I first purchased Civ2 some time back, I initially played the Jules Verne scenario many times. Loved playing it. Like most, I then completely forgot that multiple scn files was a technique available to scen designers. I'd like to hear all the details of how it works for you. Thanks for expounding on the intricasies of the mechanism so far. It's an idea that has seldom, if ever, been utilized, and, as you've noted, its use allows a designer to present alternatives that can confront a player with a "new" experience almost every time. I'm not a mathematician, lol, but the combination of random scn files with random events files suddenly opens up a whole new vista of "surprises" for players.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-09-2004 05:45 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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The feature should be explored for sure.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:17
  Old Post 15-09-2004 07:10 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can tell you it works well. I used it for Red October a while back (avail. on my site: http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/ ).

It's easy to use. Just take your master save file, make what adjustments you want, save as scenario alt2, etc, then reload the master save file and start over. I made 9 scn files and 9 events files for OM-G, though I only had 3 different startup positions. I could have used only 3 scn files since an events file is assigned randomly to whichever scn file is loaded when the scenario is first started. I had first thought there was a direct relationship between '5' scn file and '5' events file, etc.

The most interesting aspect IMHO, is the use of multiple events files. It allows significantly increased randomization of events for for ToT and for the first time in MGE. Not that I want to encourage you to stay with an obsolete technology, Phenix.

I've found this feature is easy to use and, based on my experiments, it provides reliable randomization.

Leonidas is offline Leonidas
King

May 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-09-2004 11:24
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
I can tell you it works well. I used it for Red October a while back (avail. on my site: http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/ ).

It's easy to use. Just take your master save file, make what adjustments you want, save as scenario alt2, etc, then reload the master save file and start over. I made 9 scn files and 9 events files for OM-G, though I only had 3 different startup positions. I could have used only 3 scn files since an events file is assigned randomly to whichever scn file is loaded when the scenario is first started. I had first thought there was a direct relationship between '5' scn file and '5' events file, etc.

The most interesting aspect IMHO, is the use of multiple events files. It allows significantly increased randomization of events for for ToT and for the first time in MGE. Not that I want to encourage you to stay with an obsolete technology, Phenix.

I've found this feature is easy to use and, based on my experiments, it provides reliable randomization.


This is a feature that should be built into most wargames. Sadly, it's not.

I would like to see it used more in Civ2 scenarios. It offers so much gameplay.

What would be interesting is to have a WW2 Pacific Theatre scenario utilizing this random technique along with new units, etc, etc. . .

Would make for a great scenario. . .

Cheers!

 
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