13-08-2004 23:03									#31
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But not allowing Japan to be in could just lead them to indirect vetoing certain things through not providing as much funds, like the US has. The UN can do more with Japan having that power.

	13-08-2004 23:03									#32
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What is this anti-German permanent member argument? They aren't influential enough? Wha? Look at their economy ffs! And they are one of the major driving forces behind the EU (with France).

Germany and Japan both deserve seats. We can kick Russia out (ok, we really can't but it's a good idea ).

	13-08-2004 23:09									#33
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance...ssedlarge04.htm In fact, Canada contributes more than do Russia or China

and more than Denmark I assume-- The UN shoud declare Hans Island Canadian !!!

	13-08-2004 23:25									#34
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Clearly the countries in the EU can be represented by 1 permanent member.

	13-08-2004 23:28									#35
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That would just mean taking away the UK's seat, actually.

	13-08-2004 23:31									#36
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Why the UK?

	13-08-2004 23:32									#37
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Because the British are nowhere near the centre of EU politics.

	13-08-2004 23:35									#38
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I was thinking more along the lines of giving Poland the permanent EU seat.

	13-08-2004 23:36									#39
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All nuclear powers should be on the SC. Only nuclear powers should be on the permanent SC.

	13-08-2004 23:36									#40
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So Israel may officially declare it's nuke capability?

	13-08-2004 23:37									#41
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quote: I was thinking more along the lines of giving Poland the permanent EU seat.

Doubtful.

The EU would never be able to decide on a single representative as they have no unified foreign policy as yet.

Maybe in 30 years.

	13-08-2004 23:37									#42
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Don't you think it's in the world's best interests to have all the nuke powers having veto power over wars?

	13-08-2004 23:40									#43
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So you would provide an incentive to be a nuclear power?

Give us 4 months and we'll test our first nuclear weapon if that's the case.

	13-08-2004 23:40									#44
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara All nuclear powers should be on the SC. Only nuclear powers should be on the permanent SC.

So additions would be India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel-- Possible future claimants might be Argentina, Iran and who knows who else

	13-08-2004 23:41									#45
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Don't you think that would lead to an even greater rush towards going nuclear in numerous instances?

Edit: KH beat me to it.

	13-08-2004 23:42									#46
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Don't you think it's in the world's best interests to have all the nuke powers having veto power over wars?

Nope-- Thats like going to the school playground and saying there is cake for anyone that has a gun. It doesn't make dividing the cake any easier, you just have more kids with guns

	14-08-2004 00:03									#47
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So you would provide an incentive to be a nuclear power?

There's already an incentive to go nuclear. Having nukes!

	14-08-2004 00:05									#48
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There's no incentive to having nukes for a lot of countries.

This would be an incentive because the veto is usable, unlike the nukes.

	14-08-2004 00:09									#49
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There's a lot of disincentive to having nukes also. Sanctions pretty well suck.

	14-08-2004 00:54									#50
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So you're fine with having NK as a permanent member of the SC?

	14-08-2004 00:55									#51
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I'd like to see anybody impose sanctions on Canada while every West Euro country was also busy building their own "SC bomb"...

	14-08-2004 01:06									#52
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There's a lot of disincentive to having nukes also. Sanctions pretty well suck.

You must just be talking without listening to yourself.

What sanctions come with the bomb? Are they applied to Pakistan,India, Israel??

	14-08-2004 01:11									#53
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India and Pakistan took sanctions for 3 years.

	14-08-2004 01:12									#54
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Doubtful they'd ever be applied to a first world country for building a bomb.

	14-08-2004 01:36									#55
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They should replace France with Japan, make a precedent for having a max of 5 permanent members. Germany isn't as globally influential as Japan, and France is just a spoiled little kid that should never have had a permanent position anyway.

	14-08-2004 01:42									#56
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I think this is a gimme show of political support to Japan. China would never allow Japan to assume a permanent council seat, so our support for them is at once meaningless to any real outcome and free of cost. France would also veto removing itself from the council.

I think the permanent seats should go to countries that are able to keep the peace inside their neighborhoods and to help keep the peace outside their neighborhoods. By choice and history, Germany is incapable of doing so. France is slightly better equipped. The UK is by far the best equipped to do so from Europe. Japan is starting to step up to the plate, but I wonder how many capabilities they will actually develop. India hasn't even proven itself capable of influencing its own neighborhood.

Last edited by DanS on 14-08-2004 at 01:49

	14-08-2004 01:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I think this is a gimme show of political support to Japan. China would never allow Japan to assume a permanent council seat, so our support for it is at once meaningless to any real outcome and free of cost.

don't be so sure about that.

	14-08-2004 01:54									#58
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Brevity is the soul of wit only if meaningful information is conveyed. See, e.g., Dinodoc.

	14-08-2004 01:55									#59
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I think the permanent seats should go to countries that are able to keep the peace inside their neighborhoods and to help keep the peace outside their neighborhoods.

I think it should be based on global influence and strength. By your rules Switzerland is the most qualified to be permanent member.

	14-08-2004 01:58									#60
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Roo? Can the Swiss put troops on the ground in any place other than Switzerland and Vatican City? I'm talking about quantities of expeditionary troops.