13-08-2004 22:12									#1
	Permanent SC Seat for Japan? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Powell, Armitage back permanent seat on Security Council ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON, Aug. 13 — The Bush administration supports Japan in its drive for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council, Secretary of State Colin Powell and Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage said Friday. They offered U.S. support in separate interviews with Japanese media. There are five permanent members of the Council, the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France. The other 10 seats on the Council are rotated among all members of the U.N. General Assembly except Israel, which is excluded due to an Arab-led boycott. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has appointed a panel to determine whether power shifts in the world should be reflected by adding Japan and Germany as permanent members. ''We certainly have been supportive of Japan's interest in becoming a member of this major body within the United Nations Security Council,'' Powell said. Separately, Armitage said, ''The United States fully supports Japan in its desire to have a seat in the U.N. Security Council.'' Japan is the second-biggest financier of the United Nations, its contributions exceeded only by those of the United States. Japan contributed about $263 million to the United Nations general budget in 2003. The sum accounts for nearly one-fifth of the budget, and Japan pays hundreds of millions more for peacekeeping, development and other U.N. programs. The United States contributes more than $300 million.

Link

	13-08-2004 22:15									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have mixed feelings about this. Germany and Japan are as deserving as, say, France to be on the council, but when do we stop adding more permanent members?

	13-08-2004 22:15									#4
	Put an end to popups!

we don't.

	13-08-2004 22:17									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell I have mixed feelings about this. Germany and Japan are as deserving as, say, France to be on the council, but when do we stop adding more permanent members?

Make France unpermanent.

	13-08-2004 22:18									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The thing about Japan is they do pay a lot to the UN. Unless the UN wants Japan to stop paying such a large portion of money, they need to put Japan in. There is no fear of having a whole bunch of members added because it is largely based on how Japan pays such a giant amount. I don't think Germany needs to be on though. It's not like they are that influential anymore.

	13-08-2004 22:20									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

"any more"?

They're more influential now than they have been in the past 60 years.

	13-08-2004 22:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

it's not like france, uk, or russia are, either if you want to be like that about it.

	13-08-2004 22:23									#9
	Suffering from ads?

UK is moreso than France and Germany. And "any more" as opposed to 70 and 90 years ago. Adding Europeans who aren't even integral to the world economy is kinda useless. It makes it just imperialism. Not that the US doesn't have imperialism too, it's just that with them it's not just about that.

	13-08-2004 22:26									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Germany isn't integral to the world economy? Japan only outproduces Germany 3:2 in GDP...

	13-08-2004 22:29									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'd favour adding Japan, Germany and India to the SC, but only if the SC permanent members' veto power was removed.

	13-08-2004 22:30									#12
	Support Apolyton

It's not just that though. The UN's budget is helped out by Japan far more than France, Gemany, UK, China. It's a combination of reasons.

	13-08-2004 22:30									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The thing about adding permanent members is you are adding to the number of folks that get a veto-- That gets tough. Its tough enough to find stuff that anyone else will agree with the French on NOW

So on money you have Japan and germany with possible claims. Couldn't India have a major claim based on population?

Shouldn't Canda be considered since we are peaceful folks and all around nice guys??

	13-08-2004 22:32									#14
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Flubber The thing about adding permanent members is you are adding to the number of folks that get a veto-- That gets tough. Its tough enough to find stuff that anyone else will agree with the French on NOW

The French have used far less vetoes than either the Americans or Russians/Soviets

In fact, I think they might have used less than the UK. Not sure.

	13-08-2004 22:32									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Flubber So on money you have Japan and germany with possible claims. Couldn't India have a major claim based on population? Shouldn't Canda be considered since we are peaceful folks and all around nice guys??

Germany doesn't contribute that much money though. And that's really a problem with India and Canada. No point in giving them more power unless they contribute to the UN more.

	13-08-2004 22:33									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If Japan anted up more troops for peacekeeping rather than just financing, I'd be for it. Can't really see giving Germany a permanent seat - it's just too integrated into the EU.

	13-08-2004 22:34									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The French have used far less vetoes than either the Americans or Russians/Soviets

That's largely because a lot less issues affect the French compared to the US/Russ-Sovs.

	13-08-2004 22:36									#18
	Suffering from ads?

And the Germans contribute more to the UN general budget than do the Russians, Chinese, British or French

	13-08-2004 22:37									#19
	Remove this text

http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance...ssedlarge04.htm

In fact, Canada contributes more than do Russia or China

	13-08-2004 22:38									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

So replace the French with the Germans.

	13-08-2004 22:38									#21
	Support Apolyton

Why not replace the Russians with the Germans?

	13-08-2004 22:39									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Or the British with the Germans?

Given the UK foreign policy is indistinguishable from the US's nowadays that seems appropriate.

	13-08-2004 22:40									#23
	Got spare money?

Well, what's the difference between French and German policy now?

	13-08-2004 22:41									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I certainly don't feel that British or American actions in the UNSC lately adequately represent Canada's interests any more.

British out, Germans in.

	13-08-2004 22:42									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Well, what's the difference between French and German policy now?

Worlds of difference. The Germans would never approve of certain French actions regarding former colonies, for instance.

	13-08-2004 22:42									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Plus the Germans are much less likely to support any resolution critical of Israel.

	13-08-2004 22:44									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Plus the Germans are much less likely to support any resolution critical of Israel.

Well, it's not like the US isn't already going to veto something like this anyway.

	13-08-2004 22:47									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

An example of why the veto power should be revoked.

	13-08-2004 22:57									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse An example of why the veto power should be revoked.

Do you really see that happening though? I don't support everything I'm saying, I'm just thinking realistically.

	13-08-2004 23:00									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If it isn't then I have no urge to increase the number of vetoes available so I'm against any expansion of the permanent members.