16-08-2004 00:36									#1
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I'm tired of having loads of obsolete troops fighting the enemy. It takes decades to upgrade my army and by that time technology have advanced again. I'm assinging techs for every faction and no tech advances.

	16-08-2004 00:36									#2
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Can some one help me decide what each faction should get?

	16-08-2004 00:52									#3
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Why don't you try tech stag?

	16-08-2004 00:57									#4
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did that. Still, I have to build the new units, retire old ones and build transports to send them accross the map to fight mariam. since she is defending, the units fighting are at the same tech level.

	16-08-2004 01:20									#5
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Simply use the 'old' units as shock troops (cannon fodder), or even better, only start producing offensive combat units when they're needed.

	16-08-2004 06:35									#6
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why does upgrading take you "decades"-- save some cash and upgrade the old units to the newest tech.

Your 4-1-2 rover can become a 12-1-2- in one turn so what's the issue

	16-08-2004 06:53									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber why does upgrading take you "decades"-- save some cash and upgrade the old units to the newest tech. Your 4-1-2 rover can become a 12-1-2- in one turn so what's the issue

Look, they are in allied bases. They first need to be transported to my bsese across the map to upgrade. Upgrading costs money too. I can't afford to do that because new tech comes up too quickly. 10 years after I got organic superlubercant I discovered advanced space flight. The units fighting the believers are still chaos and fusion.

	16-08-2004 07:47									#8
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You can do in the field upgrades from the design workshop.

Also, after Plasma Shards new weapon advances take a while.

	16-08-2004 09:31									#9
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You could modify the factions so that the University and Cyborgs get -4 research, the Believers and Free Drones get -6 research, and the other factions get -5 research. Then cut the research effects of Social Engineering choices in half. That ought to make research take twice as long as otherwise.

	16-08-2004 10:32									#10
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Give Deidre Centauri Empathy (so she can mindworm better)
Give Morgan Planetary Networks for probes
Give Miriam...Secrets of the Human brain (scouts that are now immune to probes)
Hive gets Industrial Base (making them even harded to conquer)
Santiage should have Mobility for rovers
Zak should get applied physics because he's a genius. As for Lal...I'm not sure. Maybe just Ethical Calculus so he could do a rapid expansion strategy and have tons of bases making stuff.

I'm not sure thats an interesting question.

	16-08-2004 16:45									#11
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You can upgrade your units anywhere, even in the open, if they have all their moves.

Modifying SE research ratings is not the way to go, since research is capped beneath at -5, and -1, 0, and +1 are all significantly different in the early game for a variety of reasons. If you want slower tech, edit alphax.txt.

Having no tech advances is no way to play a normal game. That's only suitable for a scenario.

	16-08-2004 19:06									#12
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quote: Originally posted by grobnok Look, they are in allied bases. They first need to be transported to my bsese across the map to upgrade. Upgrading costs money too. I can't afford to do that because new tech comes up too quickly. 10 years after I got organic superlubercant I discovered advanced space flight. The units fighting the believers are still chaos and fusion.

Wrong

See responses by chaos and whoha.


Its simple--design your new unit and then

1. click on a unit and upgrade it individually-- this uses a units turn OR
2. go back into the design workshop and find your obsolete unit type and click upgrade-- this does the whole group and does not use up a turn--this can be expensive

In either case you get the list of "better" units you can create. Note that you need to prototype the improved units. Upgrading to a unit you have not built is theoretucally possible but the upgrade costs are just insane

	17-08-2004 00:54									#13
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Remember one thing when upgrading - you need to upgrade both attack and defense to the at least the same level. If you have a 2-2-2 laser rover, you cannot upgrade it to a 4-1-2 impact rover, you MUST create a 4-2-2 unit. This can be a pain if you have made maximum value units using Materials pods, some of them can be quite expensive to upgrade. I'll often just skip upgrading those units, you usually only have a few.

	17-08-2004 03:24									#14
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No money to upgrade?

If you're researching tech that fast, then why don't you divert LABS to ECON where its needed?

quote: Look, they are in allied bases. They first need to be transported to my bsese across the map to upgrade

They don't. Click on them. Upgrade. Voila. Just don't move them, or you'll have to skip their entire turn.

quote: Upgrading to a unit you have not built is theoretucally possible but the upgrade costs are just insane

I had to do that ASAP with Silksteel once, when Santiago was rover rushing me like heck with her Missile Rovers. Being Morgan, well, I had 7000 credits, what can I say.

quote: Remember one thing when upgrading - you need to upgrade both attack and defense to the at least the same level.

Not necessarily....my armored infantry was upgraded to non-armoured infantry, but with superior weaponry.

And the whole fun is managing your long supply line. Theoretically, if you were playing a human player, he or she is supposed to take advantage of the far distance. That is tactics. Then he or she can ambush your upgraded troops on the way, or...

	17-08-2004 10:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf No money to upgrade? If you're researching tech that fast, then why don't you divert LABS to ECON where its needed?

It's possible to find yourself in this situation in spite of having over 17000 creds saved up. All it takes is a poorly timed energy market crash.

	17-08-2004 10:43									#16
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Speaking of market crashes, can someone tell me what causes them in the game? Are they random, or based on the some situtation in the game you're playing at the time?

	17-08-2004 16:19									#17
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They're random, but only happen if you have at least 1000 credits.

	17-08-2004 17:57									#18
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quote: They're random, but only happen if you have at least 1000 credits.

That's why I tend to spend all till I'm ready (and going) for economic victory/energy stockpile

	18-08-2004 08:34									#19
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These are the reserved techs for the factions.
Gaians: centauri empathy
Ceo morgan: Applied gravionics
Industrial nanorobotics
Planetary economics
University: Frictionless surfaces
Digital sentience
Self aware machines
Hive: Will to power
Spartans:Advanced military alogrithms
Peacekeepers: Eudaimonia
Believers:Nothing.
What do you people think?

	18-08-2004 18:44									#20
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This is for your no-tech game, right? Exactly what do you expect the factions to do, anyway? I think the only victory condition possible with only those techs is conquer, except Morgan can try economic victory. Do you expect Miriam to throw scout patrols at everyone? Or have I misinterpreted all this?

	18-08-2004 19:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by grobnok These are the reserved techs for the factions. Gaians: centauri empathy Ceo morgan: Applied gravionics Industrial nanorobotics Planetary economics University: Frictionless surfaces Digital sentience Self aware machines Hive: Will to power Spartans:Advanced military alogrithms Peacekeepers: Eudaimonia Believers:Nothing. What do you people think?

Think about what?? whats the purpose of this tech listing?? is this to give people a certain tech and not allow research?

Oh and chaos, if the morgans get land to themselves, they don't have to worry much about fighting since no one gets a former, a boat or drop troops

	18-08-2004 21:52									#22
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No, these are just the unique techs for factions to make them special. It's not all they have. Everyone gets centauri ecology and other necessary techs. These are just the special techs like the unique units in civilization 3.

	18-08-2004 22:13									#23
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When does a faction get these special techs? If it were immediate, the Believers can say bye bye---- I'm just imagining how powerful the PKs will be with their eudomania SE choice LOL

	18-08-2004 22:52									#24
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Funny thread, but decent idea.

It's easy to change the ability to research with a scenario (it's a regular option).

If you want exclusive techs to certain factions, they'll have to be edited to be unresearchable, and, you'll have to gift them to the appropriate factions either at the beginning (scenario) or mid-game. In the mid-game you could re-save the game as another scenario and then gift all the appropriate techs all at once. AFAIK there is no timed mechanism to gift techs otherwise.

Research is too much of the fun of the game to give up for anything other than a mini-scenario, for me. To each his own though.

	19-08-2004 01:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber When does a faction get these special techs? If it were immediate, the Believers can say bye bye---- I'm just imagining how powerful the PKs will be with their eudomania SE choice LOL

Actually, the believers just eliminated the hives and are pressuring the gaians. I had to place a death sphere and a interceptor both armed with string distruptors to help he hold back mariam's forces. so the believers aren't as weak as you think.

	19-08-2004 01:19									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by grobnok Actually, the believers just eliminated the hives and are pressuring the gaians. I had to place a death sphere and a interceptor both armed with string distruptors to help he hold back mariam's forces. so the believers aren't as weak as you think.

Well I have no idea who is playing which faction ( AI or human) but if you give the PKs eudomania on the first turn of the game and give the believers nothing, its bye bye believers IMHO.

But you are talking that you are in the era of deathspheres anyway so its not a game in my experience ( and yes I have played the game to the end many times) . Its just if we are talking string disruptors, transcending is only a turn or two away

	19-08-2004 04:50									#27
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The believers only got chaos guns and silk steel armour. So they built tons of chaos silksteel troops. And it was very strong so I had to aid the gaians from being conquered. This shows that the game is unbalanced and the aggressive factions are too strong.

	19-08-2004 06:17									#28
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1) You screwed with the game's settings. Your experience proves nothing about the original game
2) The AI is incompetent, and likes to frivolously wage war and shift its units around. It thinks a mineral earned is a unit supported. It thinks Fundy/Planned/Power is a good SE plan.
3) Consider a game with some military factions and some builder factions. Early on, if a military faction finds a builder faction, it attacks and wins. Some builder factions are likely to remain unfound for a while. They get big, and later on step on the military factions with Trance Singularity Deathspheres and Singularity Planet Busters and sea levels rising 3000 meters in the next 20 years. Victory: builder. Just because an AI builder doesn't do this means only that the AI is incompetent. See point 2.

	19-08-2004 07:11									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory 1) You screwed with the game's settings. Your experience proves nothing about the original game

The game is not divine that you can't change. when I gave the believers low techs they should lose but instead they got really strong. Saying just because you modifyed the game so it dosen't work dosen't make sense.

	19-08-2004 07:23									#30
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You can change the game all you want, but don't expect it to reflect reliably on the original.

You ignored points 2 and 3, which probably explain how Miriam did well. She probably threatened some AI builder, who capitulated and gave her tech, or she probed it out of some AI. The AI builder hadn't pulled far ahead because it's incompetent, and so Miriam's combat advantages shone through. You could figure out why yourself by using the scenario editor.

Furthermore, factions who are behind gain a variety of benefits: friendlier opponents (sometimes), lower tech costs, more favorable random events, and (for the AI) shorter nutrient/mineral rows for example.