17-08-2004 08:16									#31
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There was a popular game called 'Deer Hunter' a few years back. I'd imagine most people who played that actually hunted deer. So saying you play games to do things you don't do in real life is not entirely accurate.

	17-08-2004 08:23									#32
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I also think its a bad idea. Maybe they'll figure that out and cut it out of the game. I certainly hope I won't have to eat three square meals a day.

	17-08-2004 08:24									#33
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quote: A long, long time ago, you had to eat in almost every RPG: if you didn't eat, you died. Zoom to 2004: you don't have to eat anymore. Why? It's a pain in the ass and it's simply not fun. Why include an RPG element that was weeded out of every RPG?

And, on the contrary, in almost every RPG you had day/night cycles and had to sleep at night because everyone else was asleep. They got rid of that in modern RPGs (except Baldur's Gate, which was based on D&D). However, more and more people have argued for day/night cycles and having no one open except inns at night and RPG designers are putting that back in.

	17-08-2004 08:49									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui There was a popular game called 'Deer Hunter' a few years back. I'd imagine most people who played that actually hunted deer. So saying you play games to do things you don't do in real life is not entirely accurate.

That would be a great counterexample, but alas, I don't think you can hunt deer 365 days a year (at least you can't where I'm from).

How much do you want to bet most of the Deer Hunter sales are in the offseason.

	17-08-2004 08:58									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui However, more and more people have argued for day/night cycles and having no one open except inns at night and RPG designers are putting that back in.

And who may that be?

I like to think that there is such a thing as progress in gameplay. Having to eat was a pain in the ass, it wasn't fun and it was tedious. Taking it out of RPGs was a very, very good decision imo. And you can't put it back in as it was: that would be a regress. If Rockstar takes a VERY different approach, it could work. But if they take the old school RPG approach, it will suck. Imagine having to stop at a restaurant once or three times a day to have meal! It will be tedious, it will not be fun and it will be a royal pain in the ass.

	17-08-2004 09:50									#36
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quote: And who may that be?

I'll direct you to Interplay forums, Morrowind forums, etc. Why do you think Fable makes a big deal that they are in the game?

quote: I like to think that there is such a thing as progress in gameplay.

But there isn't. A lot of the older games had complexities that modern games just don't have. Compare text adventures with their newer, graphic counterparts.

	17-08-2004 10:52									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'll direct you to Interplay forums, Morrowind forums, etc. Why do you think Fable makes a big deal that they are in the game?

So, you're saying that in the next Morrowind, I will have to go to sleep each night? If I want to buy something, I'll have to do it during the day? I certainly hope not. Imagine all the idle time! I'm perfectly happy with the way they're handling night/day cycles in BG and Morrowind! It enhances the gameplay. More importantly: they're not sacrificing gameplay for the sake of realism.

quote: But there isn't. A lot of the older games had complexities that modern games just don't have. Compare text adventures with their newer, graphic counterparts.

You're saying that there are no progresses whatsoever, that we can't improve gameplay ideas, that we haven't improved them? Come on! (BTW, I'm not claiming that there are no regresses.) Do you seriously miss having to eat in RPGs? Most people would agree that taking this out was a good idea.

	17-08-2004 12:25									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py yes yes, but when is it coming out for PC? That's the real question!!!!!!!!!!

* Adagio signs up for wanting to know this also




And GTA 2 was good

	17-08-2004 14:50									#39
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quote: Aiming, everything? We're obviously not talking about the same game. Driving is also a big part of the game. I don't see myself driving with the cursor keys.

Aiming is everything because everything else is the same for keyboard or gamepad.
The only difference between driving with a keyboard and driving with a gamepad is in your head, it's what you find more comfortable. There is no objective reason to say that driving with a gamepad is better then with a keyboard.
As you said later, in your opinion the gamepad is better, no problem with that....but that doesn't mean we all have to admit that it's better like you said earlier.

	17-08-2004 15:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo A long, long time ago, you had to eat in almost every RPG: if you didn't eat, you died. Zoom to 2004: you don't have to eat anymore. Why? It's a pain in the ass and it's simply not fun. Why include an RPG element that was weeded out of every RPG? Lets hope they will do it right.

You still do have to eat in most RPGs. It's just that most "RPG"s on the computer aren't role playing games at all.

All the good RP modules in NWN, for instance, require food and sleep.

	17-08-2004 16:36									#41
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Sounds excellent.. and I for one don't like the eating thing either. It'll be neat for few times 'ohh look it's hungry again!' but it'll get to be annoying after that.

In fact, I'll install Vice City again.. can't beat that 80s radio..

	17-08-2004 17:45									#42
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In GTA3 PC version you can aim using the mouse or the other lock-on system. You can guess which one is superior though due to what the PC crowd actually choose to use. Hooray for aiming.

	17-08-2004 18:07									#43
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Having to make your character eat and sleep in computer games really really sucks. You have to take your character to the gym too, it seems. And you can give him tatoos and a lot more different sets of clothes.

Is this GTA or The Sims?

	17-08-2004 18:40									#44
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1. In Baldurs gate, you sleep either at an inn, or in the wild. Ive always assumed that this implicitly included eating - you either got a meal with your Inn room, or foraged/hunted while in the wild. Just abstracted out. And eating more than once a day abstracted out too.


2. The Sims includes lots of activities one does every day. It seems to be real popular.

3. Isnt GTA in large part a driving game? Thats something lots of folks do every day Just cause a game is ABOUT something you dont everyday, it can still include activities you do every day.

	17-08-2004 18:50									#45
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I hope they include some need of sleep, but I don't care much for the need of food... should happen automaticly when 'sleeping'

	17-08-2004 18:57									#46
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark 3. Isnt GTA in large part a driving game? Thats something lots of folks do every day

But hopefully not like they do in GTA...


*Looks out at the debris along the side of the road* Yeah, maybe not.

	17-08-2004 19:00									#47
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I hope they make the taxi-driving part more interesting (read: dynamic)... I loved driving around in a taxi, but the missions got quickly boring, since there were only few different locations to deliver them to...

	17-08-2004 19:04									#48
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What the game needs is other criminals. Why doesn't the player character ever get car jacked or mugged?

	17-08-2004 19:15									#49
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That happened in GTA2...

	17-08-2004 19:24									#50
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Not to any real effect. Occasionaly someone would return your punch, or try to get back into his car... but they never posed any real threat or challange.

EDIT: Nevermind, I was thinking Vice City. I don't remember that happening in GTA2... but that was along time ago.

	17-08-2004 19:29									#51
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In GTA 2 there were actually some people who just walked down the street, then randomly steal a car, sometimes one where you were in... could be annoying when you were waiting for something to happen during a mission (like waiting for a person to arrive), and then all of the sudden you're dragged out of the car, and the car is out of there... and of course then this person you were waiting for arrives, so you need to quickly find another car

	17-08-2004 21:15									#52
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That actually sounds really cool .

	17-08-2004 21:22									#53
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Having to make your character eat and sleep in computer games really really sucks. You have to take your character to the gym too, it seems. And you can give him tatoos and a lot more different sets of clothes. Is this GTA or The Sims?

I'm hoping it will be like GTA3, in that you could train your guy to be a good runner that didn't tire easily by running a significant amount. OR by doing the ambulance missions to level 12. If there are missions you can do that will let you get your character fit and stay that way then I will be happy. Well, not upset.

Eating in real life is enough of a pain and there I actually get to taste what I eat. Eating in games as well?

Oh, and people carjacked you in GTA3 and Vice City as well.

	17-08-2004 21:58									#54
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd You still do have to eat in most RPGs. It's just that most "RPG"s on the computer aren't role playing games at all. All the good RP modules in NWN, for instance, require food and sleep.

In my more nerdy days, I played some pen and paper RPGs. I don't remember having to eat and sleep each day. Of course, you had to sleep in order to learn you spells in D&D, but you didn't get sleepy if you skipped some zzzzz's. Irc, a group of warriors could skip sleep altogether. That said, I'm sure there are optional rules for food, sleep and other things. You have to brush your teeth at least once a day, or less your teeth fall out; you have to take a dump once in while, or less your character gets cranky and irritable...

	17-08-2004 22:08									#55
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo In my more nerdy days, I played some pen and paper RPGs. I don't remember having to eat and sleep each day. Of course, you had to sleep in order to learn you spells in D&D, but you didn't get sleepy if you skipped some zzzzz's. Irc, a group of warriors could skip sleep altogether. That said, I'm sure there are optional rules for food, sleep and other things. You have to brush your teeth at least once a day, or less your teeth fall out; you have to take a dump once in while, or less your character gets cranky and irritable...

Pen and Paper rules are made and changed by the players, but I think you'll find that the core D&D rules require eating and sleep.

	17-08-2004 22:13									#56
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All the D&D games I have played required players to sleep each night or suffer severe "overtired" penalties the next day. Of course, most of it is abstracted to "it occured sometime during the day, but no specific details".

	18-08-2004 00:05									#57
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Whatever. You actually believe that having to eat in a game is a good idea gameplay-wise? IMO one of the golden rules of good game design is: never sacrifice gameplay for the sake of realism. If you can have both, gameplay and realism, that's the holy grail: that's what I call an elegant design. But if you have to choose between gameplay and realism, choose the first one. Unless you're designing a simulation, realism for realism's sake is rarely a good idea. I think that food doesn't enhance gameplay. On the contrary, you're introducing a boring and tedious gameplay element for... for what? For the sake of realism.

	18-08-2004 01:15									#58
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When you are roleplaying, realism (in terms of the game's setting) is essential for the gameplay to exist.


When you are talking about GTA3... well, we'll have to wait and see how it's done, won't we?

	18-08-2004 01:25									#59
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Whatever. You actually believe that having to eat in a game is a good idea gameplay-wise? IMO one of the golden rules of good game design is: never sacrifice gameplay for the sake of realism. If you can have both, gameplay and realism, that's the holy grail: that's what I call an elegant design. But if you have to choose between gameplay and realism, choose the first one. Unless you're designing a simulation, realism for realism's sake is rarely a good idea. I think that food doesn't enhance gameplay. On the contrary, you're introducing a boring and tedious gameplay element for... for what? For the sake of realism.

	18-08-2004 01:55									#60
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quote: I think that food doesn't enhance gameplay.

How do you know? Have you played the game already?