03-09-2004 22:37									#61
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Well, this scenario wouldn't work, because we wouldn't help ND. We simply cannot. At least not yet. This is why we wanted to help them during the reconstruction phase, to avoid helping them in a battle.

Speculation time, right? OK, my guess:
GS started their invasion against us, but to surprise us, they are coming from our east. So, ND saw the GS Armada (aprox. 10 transports+12 destroyers) and despite GS's assurances that it is against us, they are worried and want to be prepared for a possible sneaky maneuver from GS.
How does this sound?

	04-09-2004 01:35									#62
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Quite possible, I'd say.

	04-09-2004 01:37									#63
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Thanks I hope it is not true, though.

	04-09-2004 08:44									#64
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There are so many possiblities, it's making my head spin.

I think we are prepared, but my DON game taught me to never be too confident. None the less, I think we have done all we could. Now, the waiting is the tough part.

	18-09-2004 23:54									#65
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Hello everyone. I know that it has been a long time now, but I came bye to hi and see how the team is doing. I hope no one minds but I would like to add my thoughts about this war that is coming.

First this is that if we are attack consider moving infantry units form other cities that are far from the war zone to help in defense.
Second I think you guys are already doing this, but I will say it anyways, build lot of artillery.
Third, I have always believed that being on the offensive is much better then fight densively and reacting. Of course Legoland is in no position to attack at this time, but once we get tanks consider attacking our selfs if we have defeated their invasion force.
Forth, we should aim at trying to sink as many transports as posible. YOu cannot stop them all, but if you can sink 2 or3 that is killing 16 to 32 attacking units that could stop them dead in their tracks. The goal is not to kill all the transports but kill enough that they do not have enough units to attack. They will be forced to withdraw and regroup before attacking again giving us more time.

	19-09-2004 15:11									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www First this is that if we are attack consider moving infantry units form other cities that are far from the war zone to help in defense.

We are certainly going to do that, no doubt. Every single unit not required elsewhere will be facing the invasion stack (protecting the artillery). The "war" will most likely be one rather short, but intense battle - if the invaders succeed to break out of the beaches, we will be defeated and crumble in just few turns. If we manage to pin the invaders down, they'll be defeated. So - yes, of course, all our cities that will not be under the direct threat of a seaborne invasion will be emptied, their garrisons sent against the landed stack.

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Second I think you guys are already doing this, but I will say it anyways, build lot of artillery.

We've got 61 arty pieces ATM, which I believe is ok. We now need more infantry to protect those valuable arty pieces (and that's one of the things we are focusing on, speaking military production). Artillery without a proper escort is more of a liability than an asset - since you can lose it to your enemy.

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Third, I have always believed that being on the offensive is much better then fight densively and reacting. Of course Legoland is in no position to attack at this time, but once we get tanks consider attacking our selfs if we have defeated their invasion force.

I am not sure I agree completely... the thing is that anyone trying to invade us must carry out a seaborne operation. Seaborne invasions are extremely costly against human players. However, the same applies to us - we'd have to attack from the sea, having the same problem.

But - as you correctly point out, it's a moot point ATM. With no tanks, there is no possibility of attacking. We'd only be wasting troops.

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Forth, we should aim at trying to sink as many transports as posible. YOu cannot stop them all, but if you can sink 2 or3 that is killing 16 to 32 attacking units that could stop them dead in their tracks. The goal is not to kill all the transports but kill enough that they do not have enough units to attack. They will be forced to withdraw and regroup before attacking again giving us more time.

While true, this is easier said than done against human players - they do know how valuable those transports are. I am actually willing to bet the invasion armada will have her escort strong enough to not allow us a single shot at the transports. 10 DDs would be enough to do that... and GS certainly can put 10 DDs together for this task. We have a sizeable BB fleet to attack with, but still - I seriously doubt we will be able to put more BBs together than GS will have DDs escorting those transports (plus - keep in mind we do not know where they will be coming from, so not all our BBs may be within the striking range).

However, I believe we will be able to make their life quite difficult after they land.

	20-09-2004 00:27									#67
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NOw that I looked at their millitary I can see attacking the transports would not be should a great idea right now. GOW and GS have 25 transports between them. If they have that many transports they dont have to fully load up each transport with units, thus even if they lose one they would not suffer much. Do you guys think GS and GOW will attack us at the same time? if they do they could land a 120 unit invansion force on our beaches if they wanted too.

	20-09-2004 00:32									#68
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THe one good thing that I see in all this, they dont have that many artillery units. Form my experience with Civ3 if you have at least over 60 artlillery units you can blast through the most heavily defended cities you can find. So at least I think they wont be going that route.

	20-09-2004 06:38									#69
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Well GS/GoW have almost 100 tanks, and now they have Amp. Warfare. I don't know what else they could be waiting for. The attack should come very quickly. We will soon see if our prepartions have been adequate.

I trying to think of what else could be done, but I see nothing. Every turn that they delay their assault is a bonus for us (bombers, artillery, BB, infantry), but we have no control over the timing. Frankly, I am a bit surprised that they have not already launched.

	20-09-2004 10:56									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Do you guys think GS and GOW will attack us at the same time? if they do they could land a 120 unit invansion force on our beaches if they wanted too.

There is more than one scenario possible... the worst one is they both strike at us at the very same time. That would be rough. They may strike 1-2t earlier, at Vox - to lure our troops to Voxtavia, allowing GS bombers (once they have some) to isolate us there by cutting the RR link along the Isthmus of Invoice - that we are prepared for (a strong transport fleet anchors in Port Hammer, ready to bring troops from Voxtavia back home in a single turn).

GoW may even be going after ND, who knows...

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www THe one good thing that I see in all this, they dont have that many artillery units. Form my experience with Civ3 if you have at least over 60 artlillery units you can blast through the most heavily defended cities you can find. So at least I think they wont be going that route.

Using loads of artillery for campaigns against human players is tricky. You need a LOT of infantry to protect those pieces, otherwise you may easily lose the arty to a counterattack - I've done that in the DoN game. Took 40+ arty pieces from careless Hot_Enamel. What looked like a war instantly won from him (he was stronger than I was), turned into a nightmarish race with the clock...

Lack of GS/GoW arty suggests they do not fear being attacked...

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops Well GS/GoW have almost 100 tanks, and now they have Amp. Warfare. I don't know what else they could be waiting for. The attack should come very quickly. We will soon see if our prepartions have been adequate.

My personal guesstimate is 2t till their armadas set sail. 2t maximum.

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops I trying to think of what else could be done, but I see nothing. Every turn that they delay their assault is a bonus for us (bombers, artillery, BB, infantry), but we have no control over the timing. Frankly, I am a bit surprised that they have not already launched.

Ditto. I am quite surprised, too. Their massive buildup is close to an overkill, methinks... an overkill that actually compromises their chances of success. I hope they have already missed the best moment... speaking relative, of course. With 100 tanks, the time is still quite ok.

Their only advantage now is the sheer number of tanks - the element of surprise is gone (though they may not be aware of that), our own tanks just few turns away... and who knows, we may even be able to finish a couple of hydro plants before being hit (Legopolis at least will finish it - and that's 1t bombers or 1t tanks).

I will go through the turn plan one more time today. I have to confess I found out about the A.W. discovery only after putting it together. I may switch some cities from infra (hydros, hospitals) to infantries. See the turn plan thread later today.

	20-09-2004 19:30									#71
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I don't know if GOW is part of an alliance with GS, 36 tanks is obviously enough to launch an invasion but then again GOW might be merely trying to arm it self against another GS invasion of their own.
After all the two have been at loggerheads and 69 tanks would be enough to attack either of our teams and as far as I am aware we have no indication that GOW is in any hostile to us diplomaticly although it has been a long time since we last contacted them.

It could be argued that the bombers and carriers are proof of thier hostle intentions towards but then again, More units you have the better you are going to defend yourself. Anyway isn't GOW still repairing the land it captured from RP team?
I just question the validity that GOW is in on this.

	21-09-2004 17:34									#72
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I have always been assuming that GoW will make sort of a "limited, though not negligible appearing" in this GS war against Lego. Here is my reasoning (not really in the order of importance):

1) it would not be for the first time - something similar happened during the Luxian War and later during the Stormian War, too

2) it is in GoW's interest to have Lego cut down to (their) size (or smaller). They can't defeat us peacefully because of inferior economy - perhaps maybe teaming up with GS... but then, it'd be GS winning (if not Lego)... GoW is not here to help someone else win - they want to win themselves.

3) it is NOT in GoW's interest to have GS win this war with minimal or small losses - they would get rid of us, but would have a vastly superior GS to fight. Keep in mind the end of this game is coming - I'd be surprised if we had more than 80-100 turns to go. Probably less. GS is capable of winning the game with just Stormia - if they succeed to kill Lego off, that is.

So... GoW does not really need nor wish anyone to win. They need the war to be as bloody and as long as possible. They do not need more land - definitely not on Legos.

I expect GoW to make a spectacular appearing in the opening phase of the war - probably landing in concert with GS. But after losing the landing stack, I would be surprised to see reinforcements.

And then there is always the possibility that GoW will go after ND... would make more sense from their PoV. They let GS duke it out with us and try swallowing ND up in the meantime. Whoever wins the GS-Lego war, they might be able to challenge the winner for victory.

	22-09-2004 07:52									#73
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would you consider war time economy? I know that it is hard to turn off once we do it, but it would boost millitary product if it came to that point.

	22-09-2004 09:21									#74
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My guess is not until we can roll out tanks

	22-09-2004 09:40									#75
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We don't need to mobilize, we allready have sufficient production to meet our needs; especially after we build Hydro Plants.

	22-09-2004 11:33									#76
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I'd imagine that we would do that only if the situation becomes desperate.

	22-09-2004 16:57									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www would you consider war time economy? I know that it is hard to turn off once we do it, but it would boost millitary product if it came to that point.

This is a question very difficult to answer without a specific situation. As others pointed out, unless the war goes bad for us, we will probably not have to mobilize. Our shield output (especially with hydro plants which we are likely to finish before or very shortly after being invaded) should hopefully be enough to replace our losses and even build some extra troops.

However, if we get unlucky and suffer high infantry losses, we may have no other choice, but to mobilize. The difference between 1t & 2t infantries/tanks may be the difference between winning or losing the war. We would have to carefully check how many cities would become capable of producing military units faster... the price is very high: only military builds allowed (except for whatever you are building at the moment you mobilize).

So... consider? Seriously consider? Definitely! Actually use? Only in a rather specific situation, I'd say.

The longer this war will last, the more likely it will be, I think - especially if GoW contributes more than just a token distraction stack to the war effort. To withstand the might of united economies of GS & GoW longer then just few turns, we would probably have to mobilize.

I used mobilization once - it was in that memorable DoN game. It almost helped me to defeat Hot_Enamel. I had a war-torn empire only to work with (pretty much destroyed by a previous attack), yet I was able to outproduce/outbuild him in terms of military within just few turns. It's definitely something to keep in mind.

	04-10-2004 23:55									#78
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I wonder if this is just a bug-breaker or not, but there is a state of war between GoW and ND ...

	05-10-2004 11:03									#79
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there is? hmmm thats nice to know....

	05-10-2004 21:43									#80
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I guess this is the time we have to sit and wait. We have done all we could to prepare.

I could see the Coalition of the Damned (COD) using a multi-pronged approach. GS, GoW, and ND hitting us at different points, trying to spread us out.

OR

They could hit in one concentrated spot.
Is there a way they can take advantage of the turn order? I not sure what the order is, or if it's possible.

Oh well, all we can do is wait.

	06-10-2004 10:40									#81
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You forgot RP :P
If GS, Gow and ND is the COD what should we name ourselves for press purposes? Axis of Anvil? the confederation of construction? The alliance of the free and building?

	06-10-2004 16:59									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I wonder if this is just a bug-breaker or not, but there is a state of war between GoW and ND ...

It might have been just bug-fixing, but it might have been an arty transfer, too. GoW had 20 arty pieces only in 1210AD, but 27 pieces in 1220 AD. Considering they added 2 settlers, 8 marines, 2 transports, and 1 bomber on top those 7 extra arties last turn, I guess those 7 new arty pieces might have been actually made in Arabia...

	06-10-2004 17:40									#83
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Good catch.

	09-10-2004 11:42									#84
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Opening 1230AD.

EDIT: oops, wrong thread...

Last edited by vondrack on 09-10-2004 at 11:51

	09-10-2004 12:45									#85
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Bad news: ND and GoW have Espionage. Most probably GS will have it too, this turn.

I suppose that at least one of them will steal our map, and maybe troop locations.

Maybe it'd be an idea to try to catch some spies in the coming turns

They must have been waiting for this before the attack, though it puzzles me why they let us so close to Mot. Transp.

	09-10-2004 13:10									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Bad news: ND and GoW have Espionage. Most probably GS will have it too, this turn. I suppose that at least one of them will steal our map, and maybe troop locations. Maybe it'd be an idea to try to catch some spies in the coming turns They must have been waiting for this before the attack, though it puzzles me why they let us so close to Mot. Transp.

Hah! Haven't gotten that far yet. This, I believe, is actually good news. If they plant spies with us (and it's definitely not going to be easy because of our vast cultural superiority), they will find out we are quite ready for an attack. 85 infantries and 61 artilleries, even two combat settlers. I don't think that would encourage them to set sail right away. And waiting makes their invasion harder and harder every single turn.

As for stealing plans... we cannot steal GoW plans. Not even immediately (costs 2620g). Ours should be just about the same cost for them, methinks. I highly doubt they'd waste that much gold... a simple spy is much more of a possibility.

	10-10-2004 08:00									#87
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I don't think Tibi was suggesting that we steal any troop locations. In any case, I agree that this spending would be useless. We will be able to see their transports well in advance, except around Crossing.

A good use of the gold is to steal technology(Radio Towers). Also as Tibi suggested, we could locate enemy spies, but I think this would be secondary.

I doubt they will wait; they have already made the mistake of waiting too long.

	10-10-2004 10:50									#88
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quote: Originally posted by lmtoops I don't think Tibi was suggesting that we steal any troop locations.

I was referring to his line about them stealing our troop locations:

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Bad news: ND and GoW have Espionage. Most probably GS will have it too, this turn. I suppose that at least one of them will steal our map, and maybe troop locations.

I will have to analyse stealing Radio, putting together pros and cons... It's not like you come to a shop, pick Radio, pay, and go home...

	10-10-2004 15:01									#89
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Do we know that 'they' have a good knowledge of how vital VOX is to our science. i was just wodering because their anilation would constitute as a serious blow right? and Vox be ideal for a blow of vengence despite their high amount of hilled cities. maybe we should suggest they locate a settler within Legoland just incase.

	10-10-2004 19:49									#90
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quote: Originally posted by rendelnep Do we know that 'they' have a good knowledge of how vital VOX is to our science. i was just wodering because their anilation would constitute as a serious blow right? and Vox be ideal for a blow of vengence despite their high amount of hilled cities. maybe we should suggest they locate a settler within Legoland just incase.

That's difficult to say... most probably, they are only becoming to realize how much of help Vox is to us science-wise. But they may be focused on us much more, sort of neglecting Vox.

Either way, there is not much we can do. Having a settler somewhere in Legoland would be useless. It's not the very Vox existence that is important to us. It's their research power, their free modern tech, and their support. Saving them just for the sake of saving them would make little sense.

Fortunately, the rough terrain of Voxtavia and the Voxian city spacing does not really make a sudden crushing blow possible. And if someone simply lands, then it's pretty much like if Legos was invaded - we'd send in as much as we'd be able to. Escorted arty and cavalry/tanks.

BTW, Vox do have a picket wall up, just like we have.