10-10-2004 13:49									#31
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The company needs only one list to view as it is a collection of our thoughts.

"I mean, if the community doesn't think that the list is important and people don't step in- then I don't see why we should force it through."

I've read the document is 190 pages long- come on, that's stupid- It must be edited into pracy form.

190 pages should vanish into no more than 40 pages, with effort made to combine key points into no more than say 4 pages of A4- if the programmers are interested they then have the relevant pages to view if they wish, If they like it, then they can utilise all 40/140 pages to learn more, but starting from 4 pages of A4, with all the key points within.

Toby

	10-10-2004 22:03									#32
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true enough, but the old list was 400 pages plus
-
The benefit of this list is the special subdividing, Firaxis can just look at the titles of each idea to get some idea what the idea consists of... then if they like, they can read more. that's the main benefit of this list.

so, in essence it's only about 20-40 pages when you just look at the sugestion titles, but when it involves more athn just the titles, then it expands to 190 pages

	13-10-2004 08:11									#33
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Hi DarkCloud.

So far you've done all the work, without being sure of any return (From Fireaxis)! (You are helping them, not the otherway round)

How about doing a poll within which you must chose only two/one field/s you would most like to see improvements within?

I'd vote for political systems (preferably none at start) and diplomacy. I'm sure others will have different priorities.

The key factor is a poll that will provide them with a clear idea of area's we most want to be improved, they certainly can't ignore it once presented- as it's future sales.

If a choice was "no bugs" I'd waste a vote on the option......


Toby

	13-10-2004 09:48									#34
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I'd say lots of premade scenarios and the editor, but I know I'd be vastly outvoted. But I hope we don't only submit ideas for two fields, and I would guess most of us would agree on that. If it is just two fields, I hope things like a wider selection of civs would come anyway and not count as a field for improvements. And it is said that the posting community does not neccessarily indicate what will sell.

	13-10-2004 20:23									#35
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Toby

quote: How about doing a poll within which you must chose only two/one field/s you would most like to see improvements within?

That would be a great idea- why don't you start that thread. I'd certainly vote on it!

Also, if you compiled and commented on the results, I'd put that in the list itself!

IT would be a good supplementary item.
-
as for being unsure whether Firaxis will use the ideas- well, we're always unsure about thigns- but firaxis reads the ideas. What more can we really ask for?

quote: So far you've done all the work, without being sure of any return (From Fireaxis)! (You are helping them, not the otherway round)

Well, the return could be the release of a game that everyone enjoys! In that case, everyone benefits!

	29-10-2004 09:52									#36
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Mate,

You are a senior board member and already know from the reams of paper which choices to pick (gotta narrow it down somehow!!) How about 8 choices? That would make me grind my teeth before voting.

For improvement:

1) Military- General
2) Combat
3) Political - General
4) Government Types
5) Territorial Integrity - General
6) Border Control
7) Diplomacy - General
8) Allies and Axis

I dunno, something like this.

No nashing of teeth for me, I'd vote for 6) immediately- even though it's the sub-topic of 5)

Oops, only realised I'd have no problem chosing once I'd laid out all 4 main fields to view- but that's just me.

Toby

Last edited by Toby Rowe on 29-10-2004 at 09:58

	20-11-2004 09:21									#37
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We seem to really be running out of time now. What's going to happen? Anything different than so far? Any sort of special wrapping up type stuff? Or will it be decided that it would make sense for us to take more time? If this one started too late, should an organized Civ5 list start as soon as it's decided that no more ideas can affect Civ4? Would more get done that way? If this list wasn't as active as the Civ3 one because people were disappointed with Civ3, I really hope Civ4 is much better and gets many more people to participate for Civ5.

	21-11-2004 00:23									#38
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Toby sorry I didn't see that until now, I've only been browsing the sections occasionally to see if a new thread has been summarized or not and didn't see it until now. That sounds like a good idea- did you ever start the poll (I'll do a thread search) but I might be able to incorporate that somehow into the document.


Brent
Well... I don't know how much time I'm going to have in early december, but In late december/ early january, I should be able to help wrap things up.

I'm sort of disappointed that we didn't have as dedicated contributions as I hoped.

And I apologize for not giving 100% of my time to this project- however, I am glad that I was able to organize you guy somewhat and get something pounded out- there are still a few more threads left to summarize and when those are done in early January, I'll get this sent off to firaxis.

I thank everyone for their contributions and volunteer work.

	21-11-2004 01:07									#39
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I guess we won't get a chance to do quite everything you had planned earlier, but I wonder if we'll get more paricipation for some of it. I guess any new versions of all the official threads is too much to hope for. I wonder how many people we could get to comment on/ vote on the ideas collected into the first posts.

	27-11-2004 06:20									#40
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About a Civ5 List, I think (and said it many times) that it should really be oriented towards "simple and coherent". Even if it does not block more serious ideas and profound ideas, it should consider Firaxis' orientation (and consider that we want the game to be good for all...). GalCiv, in my opinion, succeeded in this line and pushed the limits further (Spartan also, but it is a more specialized game).

I believe that Spartan and GalCiv show that better and more coherent is not necessarily less user-friendly oriented and more into the details-oriented. This is the essence of "easy to learn, hard to master" moto.


PS: And while GalCiv 2 is in the works, Slitherine is building Legion II on the Spartan model. Wouhou!

Last edited by Trifna on 27-11-2004 at 07:25

	27-11-2004 08:32									#41
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I love the Civ franchise and I honestly think Firaxis will do a better job then Infogrames/Atari did. Once Conquests came out Civ3 was actually a great game but the intial release was badly rushed and PTW should have been part of the core game to start with. It's nice Atari fixed the game but it would have been even better to have them release a less buggy and better tested product to begin with.

	29-11-2004 06:38									#42
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quote: I guess we won't get a chance to do quite everything you had planned earlier, but I wonder if we'll get more paricipation for some of it. I guess any new versions of all the official threads is too much to hope for. I wonder how many people we could get to comment on/ vote on the ideas collected into the first posts.

Oh well, thanks for all your dedication Brent thoroughout it all, nevertheless- and at least they read the first version of this list!

	05-12-2004 14:07									#43
	Link for Culture wrong Support Apolyton

Just a note: the link to the "Culture" thread on the first post is wrong. It should be: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=103866

	06-12-2004 21:19									#44
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thanks!

	16-12-2004 21:16									#45
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I wonder if has been discussed how warmonger the civilizations were and are in CIV3 and if this issue will be corrected in CIV4, or at least, will be proposed to be corrected.

	15-01-2005 16:57									#46
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Has updated my three lists, AI, Terrain and Terrain Improvents, and Resources. The first two I have just updated in the word file, since that was the easiest way to do it. The last one I didn't include in there, as I do not know how this linking DC has used, works. So, here it is.

Attachment: the list for civ iv.doc
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	15-01-2005 21:03									#47
	My proposals ,yust consider them Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think that biggest improvement in new civ should be in AI and diplomacy. AI should be increased and Diplomacy should be better organized with much more things to do.

There should be Councils where you will be able to propose some things like banning nuclear weapons or to decide in a conflict, who is an aggressor.

It will be good if you could make terms when you sign alliance. Like when will you involve in conflict or when will alliance be broken.

It should be possible to make borders agreement so it want be possible to "steel" territory by making a city near border.

Commerce should be easier. You put something on market (oil) and you make price (100s per barrel) and who want to buy oil Negotiates with you.

When you make right of passage agreement, that you give him a route, where his troops can move, and that you can let him have just some sum of troops on your territory.

There should be "status meter" of your relationships with others (1-100) .These status points will be representing your relations in past 200 years. So if you have with somebody good relations in last hundred years, he wouldn’t attack you for some small reason. (usa-canada)

I think that it will be good that you need to make Tank, airplane, howitzer... factory to make that kind of WEAPON. So you should protect that town.
It will be strategic town because these factories will be expensive. Then will precision strikes become very important (Iraq)

Only towns with airport should hold airplanes

It will be good that you need to make oil-pipes from oil-source to the factories to build units.

It will be also good that you can produce your own units (you choose what will you put in them) and that you can then sell them to other civs (like now Americans do)

There should be unit-limit. It will be proportional to population. And when you lead war without many casualties (with guided missiles) people wouldn’t protest against war.

Heavy machinery shouldn’t go over mountains without road. And there should be bridges and canals which will be hard to build so it will be strategic points.

Money should be more important (only in Capitalism ages) and tax system should be harder. So you couldn’t build Highways without any sense. And whit more money you could develop better Units.

It will be good that when you destroy or occupy the town that land stays in your borders and that borders can’t go over big rivers ore big mountains without a bridge or a road so borders will be much more realistic. (Like in Europe, reihn, alps , Pyrenees, donnau...)And there should be action that your unit on enemy territory can occupy that square like in real war.

Also if you cant reach your ally. Because you cant get to him cause your enemy is between you , that you cant trade with him.

And there should be ability to build wall on open territory.(Hadrian and Chinese wall)Only usable against ancient units. In modern ages there should be line (maginot) with mines and fence.

Units should have 1radius square of area where enemy unites cant pass thru like in civ2.
And your army should be able to defend ally town from inside.

You should be part of one culture, and you will have better relations with countries of same culture.

	15-01-2005 22:04									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It's fine that you want to contribute, but this thread is the wrong place. I'd suggest that you either open a new thread or post in one of the threads made for suggestions.

	16-01-2005 02:46									#49
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Thanks nikolai- putting it into the main file was the best way to modify your sections without me agonizing for hours about what was new and what wasn't

Though... I can't open the file for some reason- any chance that you can zip it?

-
The Resources file looks good!

---
as for Kolaps, Nikolai's suggestions are correct, this isn't the right place for new ideas

	16-01-2005 02:51									#50
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Weird... It works fione for me. Anyway, here you are.

Attachment: the list for civ iv.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	20-01-2005 07:32									#51
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Okay- that works well- thanks!

(Just one more favor- could you perhaps zip up TechWin's diplomacy file in the diplomacy thread? I can't read it either)

I'll be ready with a final version in a few days

	20-01-2005 11:41									#52
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Here you are, but it's made a few months before last usggestion, so I doubt it's the final work.

Attachment: diplomacy.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	21-01-2005 04:06									#53
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I think It's as final as we're likely to get from TechWins- I'll clean up the loose ends and update it myself, then we'll be done. I should have the final version ready by tommorrow- it's at 130 pages right now... and is looking pretty polished, If I do say so myself

	21-01-2005 04:18									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thanks again, and just one more request- I was browsing around Trifna's threads and found a document here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...039#post3446039

If you, or someone else could please zip that up for me, I'd appreciate it- since I can't even read it as it is now. (You see, the computer I have here doesn't have Microsoft Office on it and open office won't read microsoft office articles on the web- I have to open them en program- That's why I'm having this problem.)

	21-01-2005 11:47									#55
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Here you are.

Attachment: list2-mvmt and supply.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	21-01-2005 20:13									#56
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Thank you yet again

We have about 14 sections of the list uploaded so far.

I added
Polls, Diplomacy, User Friendliness, Regional/City Menu, and Cheats yesterday.

	21-01-2005 22:29									#57
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Good work, DC. I guess we are more or less finsihed then, I doubt more will be done by the others now, if they haven't done it by now. It's sad that the religion thread wasn't taken over by someone else after Asmodean disappeared, especially since it will be implemented. Maybe include the old ideas from the old list, or at least referer to them? IMHO it was among the best ideas of the old List.

	23-01-2005 02:13									#58
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Just uploaded the list, Nikolai

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=128464

As for the old religion ideas, I referenced the old list in a link in the Concluding Remarks section.

Many of the sections we had hoped to include were not, sadly, because the threadmasters didn't do their jobs- but what we do have is decent and useful.