17-08-2004 02:28									#1
	Settlers and Airlift Get a bigger avatar today!

I have found that I cannout airlift a settler between two cities like I can other units. Anybody else have this problem or a solution?

	17-08-2004 02:32									#2
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Click airlift on in the settler screen of the editor

	17-08-2004 02:33									#3
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hmmm I guess that entails going into the editor. Is it not possible in the regular game?

	17-08-2004 03:58									#4
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Nope, it isn't. In the default rules, settlers, workers, and artillery can't be airlifted. I think scouts and explorers can't either.

	17-08-2004 20:36									#5
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It's some weird oversight, or something.

	17-08-2004 22:39									#6
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If it was an oversite why wasen't it covered in a patch. Maybe they assume that airlifting those units would be too advantageis(sic) I can see where one city with an airport would let you swarm all over a landmass quickly, whereas transporting them takes time and can be dangerious in wartime.
It is interestin to note I saw nothing in the manual excluding land units from being airlifted??

	17-08-2004 22:54									#7
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Because they don't care enough. Really, are you going to be settling after you have airports?

	17-08-2004 23:11									#8
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Well yes I often settle after building airports. I often raze cities and dont want other civilizations building back their cities.

	18-08-2004 01:38									#9
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I will sometimes settle after airports even when not razing cities. Sometimes the AI leaves a gap that needs to be filled when it is initially placing cities.

Swarming a continent isn't really an issue by the time you get airports/airfields. The issue is beating that friendly civ next door to that suddenly attractive city site.

	18-08-2004 05:39									#10
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You knew what I meant, new territory. Simply resettling conquered land with settlers from airports isn't any more unbalancing that sending over the military units themselves through an airport.

	19-08-2004 01:33									#11
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The fact you cannot airlift Arty annoys me, but it at least helps the AI a bit.

	27-08-2004 08:47									#12
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if you're taking over a continent it really helps. I think the problem is the worker doesn't want to fly in a military craft, and commercial jets aren't available in the game.

	27-08-2004 19:32									#13
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actually I have found that I can airlift workers but still not settlers...hmmm makes no sense at all

	27-08-2004 21:04									#14
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It makes perfect sense (from a game design standpoint) to not be able to airlift settlers. Settlers are the most powerful unit in the game!

Personally, I have disabled airlift from tanks and other mechanized units. While some modern airlift aircraft can lift modern armored vehicles, they cannot lift them in quantity enough to be meaningful.

	30-08-2004 21:06									#15
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I disagree some of the largest of transports can carry a company of armor. I also think you need to look at the scale of things. Who says that each unit modern represents a single of its type? I think airlifting mechnizied units is intergrial(sp)to alot of stratagies and can provide the much needed firepower, if only to delay, till you can move enmass to the conflict area.

	30-08-2004 22:29									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe It makes perfect sense (from a game design standpoint) to not be able to airlift settlers. Settlers are the most powerful unit in the game!

Not by the late industrial, they aren't. Resettling gaps in conquered territory isn't time-critical the way peaceful expansion is.

	30-08-2004 22:31									#17
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quote: Originally posted by hobbit1 I disagree some of the largest of transports can carry a company of armor

A single American C-5A only carries 2 or 3 M-1 (Modern Armor) tanks, which weigh 60-70 tons each. I consider C3 units to be roughly brigade in size. Currently, there are only about 50 C-5A's in service. While perhaps it could be done, it isn't. Instead, military equipment is stockpiled in strategic locations.

	30-08-2004 22:44									#18
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Actually, by the Civ3 scale, one modern "unit" could easily make at least a division, if not a corps. Airlifting a whole armoured division does pose some problems, doesn't it? If so, the same problem would come up with 10000 people - a single settler.

The point is, in Civ 3 I never saw air transports getting shot down by the enemy. Being able to shift in any number of reinforcements to any airport is just too easy for my taste. And it comes way too early (got flight -> got airports -> got army anywhere in the world -> disband sea transports?). And it makes paratroopers a joke. Why bother, when you can pluck an airport and airlift tanks right away?

	31-08-2004 21:41									#19
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Well in other versions of CIV I have seen airlifts get intercepted if enemy aircraft are operating in the area. I dont think airports can replace transports as you can only airlift from a city once per turn, that makes 6 airports equal a transport. It also requires you to have an airport in the area you want to conquer, transports can hit any coast. The nice thing about Paratroopers, bomb a city till all units are gone then land troops near city, poof city is yours. Also Paratroops are good at cutting roads and destroying enhancements behind enemy lines just like history has shown us. I think if the scale is so big a unit is a division(I disagree)then the airlift capability should be on that scale.

	31-08-2004 21:51									#20
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In C2, it could happen. In C3 it does not.

	31-08-2004 21:54									#21
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Helicopter airlifts can be intercepted in C3, but that's just a tangent.

	31-08-2004 22:17									#22
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Yet another reason not to use helicopters.

	31-08-2004 22:49									#23
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Yet another reason not to use helicopters.

Rebasings, however, can't be intercepted.

	31-08-2004 23:29									#24
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hobbit1 ->

On the airlifting. Have you ever heard about the Americans airlifting armoured divisions to England during WWII? I didn't think so. And they did have airports, you know.

On the paratroopers. With a paradrop range of 8, my tanks can be as far as the paratrooper lands in 2-3 turns, 4 maximal. And they will munch anything on their way, because that's what they do basically. So I'd still rather have a tank rather than two of your funny guys, sorry.

	01-09-2004 20:24									#25
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hmmm I think all units have a place and use in CIV3. I think Paratroops usefullness is there to quickly get into rear areas not covered by roads and exploit damage bombers do to cities. In the 2-3 turns it takes you to get to a city it can be regarrisoned heavly. I think it is also not compleatly rational to assign our modern military capablities to CIV3. The game has concepts it covers in a general way and I dont think we can really try to figure those out. I will play the game with the rules I think work and you can modify them to suit your prefrences.

	16-09-2004 13:07									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 ... On the airlifting. Have you ever heard about the Americans airlifting armoured divisions to England during WWII? I didn't think so. And they did have airports, you know. ...

Well, it all depends on how you choose to view 'airports'. WW2 airports was just fields, where they kept the grass down and the ground level and free of obstructions. In civ3, every city works as a WW2 airport as planes can be based in any city.

Civ3 airports on the other hand, can be viewed as not only a flat strip of land, but also all the cargo planes and infrastructure needed to transport a unit anywhere in the world.

Personally I rarely use aiports for strategic movement of troops anyway. That's what transports are for.

	16-09-2004 13:48									#27
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Perfectly right, but only if you are talking about infantry.

For tanks and other heavy vehicles (mech. inf.) you need special transports. Too many to make such an operation reasonable, even for rich countries.

	16-09-2004 14:30									#28
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Makes you think they messed up the list of what's 'airliftable' and what's not.


The concept of needing special infrastructure(airports/airfields) to do large airlifts while fighters/bombers can land anywhere is good.


Mechanized units of the industrial/modern age in general should *not* be airliftable. I would remove artillery from the original list(and leaders/empty armies?), and add armor, modern armor, SAMs(?) and radar artillery to that list. Maybe mech.infs as well.

Maybe add some hideously expensive air-cargo unit to allow air transport of heavy units. A small wonder perhaps?

	23-09-2004 03:58									#29
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since airlifts can be intercepted, can paratroopings also be intercepted?

	26-09-2004 22:10									#30
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Sorry Shadow you are misinformed: Airlifts from airport to airport cannot be intercepted. Parra drops I am not sure about (but I suspect that they are) and Helo drops are able to be intercepted.


As for airlifting armor, this should be relegated to the modern age and should need a unit to do so. The C5-A Galaxy employed by the US can carry up to 2 M1A2 MBT's or up to 4 Bradley IFV's so its not impossible to airlift sizable armor but its not an efficient way to move them. Russia employs a much larger transport aircraft for use with their armored forces, so even this capability is not unique to the US. This ability will be further enhanced with the next generation of armored vehicles as they will be much lighter than their predesssors.