19-08-2004 18:52									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Lord, this crap still. Lets see who here believe them: Oh wait, the anti-Kerry people and ONLY the anti-Kerry people. Talk about preaching to the choir. Yawn.

20 guys who served in the same unit disagree with what kerry (or others on his behalf) has said about the facts of his service but they are lying and kerry is telling the truth.

All you have to do is start with the first purple heart to know there is something wrong about kerrys version of the events. Anyone who has any experience at all will know that kerrys 'shrapnel wound' did not come from enemy rifle fire.

	19-08-2004 18:53									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ned GePap, why of course. Kerry is not the liar. Bush is the liar. We all know this because the "anybody but Bush" crowd have been repeating it for more than an year. It must be true. When Michael Moore was asked why he says that Bush lied, he explained that there were no WMD. QED. All this prooves, if Moore is correct, is that Bush had better intel than anyone else on the planet in that he alone among world leaders KNEW that Saddam had no WMD. Wow. But it clear, GePap, that he real liar is not Bush. It is Kerry. That man has serious, SERIOUS, character flaws.

Oh Ned, top quality troll there.

I don't give a **** about what these men did 30 years ago. Bush used to be an alcoholic- so I don;t give a rats butt.

All in all, if you examine their records, Kerry has had a much more distinguished life than Bush in the public sphere. BUt I support Kerry because I support his proposed domesticl policies (OH wait, did we forget those?) and becuase, besides disagreeing vehemently with Bush on his view on almost all social and domestic issues, I think his handling of Iraq has been poor at best.

To say it simply: all other things being the same, more American servicemen have died in Iraq due to Bush policy than would have otherwise. That Bush has blood on his hands matters a great deal more to me than Kerry's Vietnam record, or his views on Vietnam, which I find much more realitic than the romantic bullshit you Ned and those swiftboat veterans want to imagine.

	19-08-2004 18:55									#33
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH 20 guys who served in the same unit disagree with what kerry (or others on his behalf) has said about the facts of his service but they are lying and kerry is telling the truth. All you have to do is start with the first purple heart to know there is something wrong about kerrys version of the events. Anyone who has any experience at all will know that kerrys 'shrapnel wound' did not come from enemy rifle fire.

Unfortunately, they have nothing but their words, and have no offical records to back any of their assertions. And given they are all openyl partisan, and some of them have been used as partisan hacks before, they have as much credability as Kerry and his surrogates.

But Kerry can show offical documents. They can't.

	19-08-2004 18:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie So Thurlow admits that he got his Bronze Star for fraudulent reasons. REPUBLICANESQUE REASON OVER-RIDE~ HOW CAN YOU TRUST THIS MAN, HE ADMITS HE OBTAINED AWARDS FRAUDULENTLY?!?!?!

Did you actually read the second article? Where is the implication that he perpetrated the fraud?

	19-08-2004 19:01									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I think I read that the NYT was up to 43 articles on the Bush-AWOL story at last count. It they're really unbiased, we should be reading about Kerry's excellent adventure in Cambodia until the election.

Only 43, that clearly signals that they are at worst centrist (fair and balanced) with a slight leaning to the left.

Its all proportional to relevance tho' isn't it?

	19-08-2004 21:17									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I understand from watching FOX yesterday

Neddy, Neddy, Neddy.

	19-08-2004 21:31									#38
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Both your presidential candidates are complete losers, I'd call it a day and change countries if I was American.

	19-08-2004 21:39									#39
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I understand watching Al Jazeera last night that Saddam is still free and it was all American propaganda. He is leading his troops from small villages of Iraq, and is ready to overthrow the American contingent soon. He has nuclear weapons of mass confusion.

I'm still waiting this to be picked up my major media.

	19-08-2004 21:44									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka I understand watching Al Jazeera last night that Saddam is still free and it was all American propaganda. He is leading his troops from small villages of Iraq, and is ready to overthrow the American contingent soon. He has nuclear weapons of mass confusion. I'm still waiting this to be picked up my major media.

It probably has a better chance.

	19-08-2004 21:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I guess MtG didn't understand correctly.

Burning villages falls under the concept of firing on anyone and anything in a free fire zone.

	19-08-2004 21:47									#42
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I'm not sure. Pravda still claims Saddam does not really exists but is creation of US government, and was used as an excuse to attack Iraq. Pravda also has recieved numerous secret reports from ex-CIA officer, that proves all of this and reveal new facts about the TRUTH in ME.

I must say I'm conflicted which is true, because the other one has to be a lie. I will make up my mind about this based on how they view the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

	19-08-2004 21:52									#43
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Pravda claims Saddam didn't exist at all?

	19-08-2004 21:54									#44
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Kuciwalker, well no, but I was just making my point about FOX News. It's in the same line with Pravda. Al Jazeera might be even more with journalistic integrity than FOX News. However, doesn't make AJ any good, they're all BS and enemies of democracy and freedom, all 3.

	19-08-2004 21:56									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka I'm not sure. Pravda still claims Saddam does not really exists but is creation of US government, and was used as an excuse to attack Iraq. Pravda also has recieved numerous secret reports from ex-CIA officer, that proves all of this and reveal new facts about the TRUTH in ME. I must say I'm conflicted which is true, because the other one has to be a lie. I will make up my mind about this based on how they view the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

Wait for the PRC talking points to be made public before you make your decision. Always a good lie err tie breaker, that.

	19-08-2004 21:57									#46
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What is PRC?

	19-08-2004 21:58									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka However, doesn't make AJ any good, they're all BS and enemies of democracy and freedom, all 3.

Which is the reason why folk like Drake and myself have issue with so called mainstream media as well.

	19-08-2004 21:59									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka What is PRC?

Peoples Republic of China. As long as we're talking bastions of Democracy and freedom of speech.

	19-08-2004 21:59									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka What is PRC?

People's Republic of China.

	19-08-2004 22:05									#50
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Ah ok.

YEs the problem is huge. THe problem is, you have so called conservative media, you have your leftist media, and the mainstream media which juggles between these two. Don't you think there's anything wrong with media that has attached something extra to itself, for example conservative, or liberal for that matter? Not a problem, unless they have a news station.

It's not freedom. You say it's freedom because you can choose what you watch. Everyone has their own, so it's not a bad situation. NO, it is even worse. SU has pravda or what ever. You have 100 pravdas. That's not a good situation, that'äs HORRIBLE situation. At least reading pravda you could tell this is not true. Going through all the biased medias, FOX etc, you don't even have necessary tools to figure out which one is actually objective, the truth. There is no room for bias in news. It's not about opinions, it's about saying what happened, stating the facts, and leaving everything else to other people. And when it comes to FOX News, it has been proved, that they don't even use the methods of proper journalism in their bias, making it nothing more but outrageous propaganda, and yet many people choose to watch it, why? Because they like the message! Message of propaganda.

	19-08-2004 22:21									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Ref: FOX News Neddy, Neddy, Neddy.

OK, I also read the NYTimes.

Kid, what do you read?

	19-08-2004 22:27									#52
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Pekka, the only problem with your theory about FOX is that they have liberal hosts and co-hosts as well. What is true is that the majority appear to be to the right of center even if they are Democrats, like O'Reilly.

	19-08-2004 22:31									#53
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No, there is aboslutely no problems with my 'theory'. It's not a theory, it's a fact. How is that a problem? DOes it make them more balanced? Doesn't change the fact that they brake the rules of journalism. Besides, the problem about these liberal hosts and co-hosts are also dealt in FoxedOut documentary. I encourage everyone to see it.

FOX News is propaganda, and not any liberal or democrat in it makes it any different.

	19-08-2004 22:34									#54
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And you know, this is not an attack against conservatives, like I said I might be conservative too, I don't know. Certainly other medias are biased too. I just think that FOX News is the clearest example of propaganda, while others might be biased, they actually do brake the rules of journalism, and yes, that makes it propaganda clear and simple and it shoudln't be allowed or tolerated IMO. BUt sure, it's not the only one out there.

	19-08-2004 22:36									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Pekka, the only problem with your theory about FOX is that they have liberal hosts and co-hosts as well. What is true is that the majority appear to be to the right of center even if they are Democrats, like O'Reilly.

Ehh, O'Reilly is a registered republican. And they only have ONE liberal cohost, Alan Colmes, who gets overshadowed by Hannity the Monster.

	19-08-2004 22:49									#56
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In reality there are any number of watchdog groups that judge the media bias. By and large they also are considered partisan tho.

WRT FOX I can't say because I don't watch it, but I've heard their factual reporting is solidly documented whilst their opinion pieces/shows are wildly partisan. Now one may argue in the same fashion that they rely heavily on editorial discretion to the point that they run a preponderance of partisan pieces but this is exactly the point being made 'gainst the NYTimes et. al.

In many respects, I think we would be better off to have a media system that clearly advertises itself as biased one way or the other to at least clear the air of the false pretense of impartiality.

The problem of course is that no one fesses up to being partisan.

	19-08-2004 22:49									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Ned OK, I also read the NYTimes. Kid, what do you read?

I read cnn.com or msn.com and I listen to pacifica.

	19-08-2004 23:01									#58
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by dragging everyone's war records through the mud instead of concentrating on the issue, it shows america that the democratic and republican parties are childish, and immature, whose only reason-d'etre is to make sure the other guy doesnt get elected.

same old tired negativity.

vote lp

www.lp.org

	19-08-2004 23:17									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Did you actually read the second article? Where is the implication that he perpetrated the fraud?

Nowhere- certainly not in my post. I'm just trying to be as hysterical as I can, to help understand what it is to be the kind of person who can hate so much so easily.

	19-08-2004 23:27									#60
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Are you implying Kerry is a man of hate for betraying his brothers in arms?