24-08-2004 05:30									#31
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Ludd...fire, of course....everybody bring matches and some magnifying glasses....dang, I almost forgot the obvious! Thank ya, Ludd!

Miller, actually, we're fleeing from Kidatopia, to set up our own little Capitalist Enclave...right now tho, we're just figuring out what we got and how to get started. Join us...

Q - Once the batteries run dry on the laptop, we're pretty well toast as far as the networking stuff goes for a while....what we need are specs for 110/120 ACV power so that WHEN we start generating juice, we can create a power supply that will run the computers we DO bring.

Ludd, since Flubber and I are currently nominees (in need of seconds) for the office of the Big Kahuna, would you be interested in the Agro posting? We can sure use it!

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:31									#32
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I would be part of a communist collective as long as I got books, and a net connection

Jon Miller
( supercomputer time might be good also, but I won't press it) (although I might press for a lab)

	24-08-2004 05:32									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller so you guys are forming a communist collective? cool Jon Miller

yup and thats what we'll keep saying until kid lets us leave. Then once we are up and running its Liberty island Co or perhaps Floydco, velco and Flubco-- since competition is permitted .

But survival is a necessity first. vel might get jealous of the second story on my hut but he won't try to appropriate it from me . .. instead if we are friend I might help him build his own. If we're not, I'll trade him for some of the fish he caught or something. We will profit share on the crops or pay a royalty to the person that provided the seed-- all good capitalist ideas

	24-08-2004 05:34									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Ludd, since Flubber and I are currently nominees (in need of seconds) for the office of the Big Kahuna, would you be interested in the Agro posting? We can sure use it! -=Vel=-

I could step aside . I would be looking to get something in the realm of fisheries. I did grow up in Newfoundland after all

	24-08-2004 05:34									#35
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yeah sounds chill. also, those turbines, they spin metal in a coiled magnet and thats what makes electricity.

	24-08-2004 05:36									#36
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LOL! Yes yes! Good one, Q!

Assessment in Progress:

So far, we got medical covered (Mrs. Flubber)

Agro posting (pending Ludd's acceptance)

Power Generation (LoA)

Scrounging (DF)

good!

You folks who have accepted positions....do a bit of research before we get kicked out of our (soon to be former) homelands, and find out all you can about your areas, especially as they relate to the south pacific....we need to know, as flubber pointed out, what sorts of stuff we can grow in those conditions, and what already grows there....we don't wanna mess up the native plantlife while tending our crops).

So...Immediate needs would be these:

* What would it take to build our own water-driven power generators?

* How far would that be from being able to create a 110/120ACV power supply to run what laptops we bring

* What native plants can we expect to find, and how many are edible

* What sorts of seeds should we bring (based on what will grow there)

* A general list of stuff to bring (we can divide this among those of us fleeing to the island, with built in redundancies in case someone forgets something, or stuff gets confiscated at the last minute)

And what else?

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:38									#37
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Now would we licence our fisheries or allow everyone free right to fish. I'm in favor of free right but if I own the boat, I would want to charge a fee for use of the boat. Perhaps some electricity if someone else owns the electrical generation. Price to be determined by the relative supply and demand of course.

Obviously aside from boat rentals I would try to diversify my fishing industry by providing a variety of products. Aside from fresh fish I would try to experiment with a variety of value added smoked or salted fish ( I am assuming that freezers would take too much electricity and we wouldn't have any anyway

	24-08-2004 05:39									#38
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Hmmm...then maybe if we dissassembled the turbines (assuming that somebody on the island knew how to reassemble them) we could get 1-2 out...problem is...unless we set about working immediately to be able to build our own, once those broke down, we'd be done for. Much better if we could figure out a way to generate the juice from stuff we could find on the island...no dependency (since we'd not get help anyway).

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:41									#39
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carprentry is chill - at home im always working on something. always have crappy power tools tho

	24-08-2004 05:42									#40
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:: nodding::

The question there is...do you think we'll get to keep the boat?

I'd be willing to bet not, but we'll need Kid to give us a judge's ruling on that. I'm going from the assumption that if we can't carry it, we can't keep it.

Hey...if we keep the boat tho...that's tops!

Where fishing, land use, et. al. is concerned....leave those things for the first Kahuna to work on?

Right now, we'll very definitely have to go barter...an ad hoc economy till we can get the basics nailed down.

Yeah...good point on the freezers....I'm doubting it...which also means no ice. Nor ice cream...yet...

-=Vel=-
* Velociryx is allergic to coconuts, by the way...LOL

	24-08-2004 05:44									#41
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LoA....I'm afraid the power tools would prolly not get much play anyhow...at least in the early days...leave them and bring whatever old school tools you got....

I'd be willing to bet that our island won't be big on metals, so we'll need to think about alternatives FOR our tools once they wear out.

Maybe seashells with serrated edges for saw blades?

Just tossing ideas out here....

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:47									#42
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quote: Now would we licence our fisheries or allow everyone free right to fish. I'm in favor of free right but if I own the boat, I would want to charge a fee for use of the boat. Perhaps some electricity if someone else owns the electrical generation. Price to be determined by the relative supply and demand of course.

the best way to divide up fisheries is to sell plots of water where fish are to certain fisherman - that way they will protect them and prevent overfishing.

quote: * What would it take to build our own water-driven power generators?

since i dont think we will be able to build dams, we will need to a bunch take small rivers, and using a system of sluice gates and small canals, direct the water to a water mill. the big wheel will turn, the driveshaft connected to it will turn inside a turbine which generates the electricity - those turbines will probably have to be imported because i have no idea how to make one. im trying to remeber how to make a cheap and easy one cuz i once used to know, but now i cant remeber. will have to continue thinking.

	24-08-2004 05:51									#43
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maybe someone else knows, its the same system used in those handpump electric flashlights where you pump the handle and the light goes on. same idea.

as for gasoline, thats no problem. we need about 15 coconuts to make one liter of coco-oil. first you open them, cut out the insides, add water, and smash them so you get like a juice. then you ferment them. then you heat, and strain, and thats your driving gasoline. will we have any cars tho is the question? or engines for that matter?

	24-08-2004 05:51									#44
	Got spare money?

'k....then I defer to you on that....we get juice, then all we gotta do is figure out how to make the power we're generating compatible with the power our laptops need, so we can keep them on.

We'll bring a few spools of Cat-5, and some Linksys or other routers to get a network going (Q - that's your bag, 'k?)....no way to replace the Cat-5 unless DF makes us proud on poker night and requisitions some from the People's Elite, but we'll worry 'bout that as it comes...

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:51									#45
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Two good bucksaws with some replacement blades
a couple of axes
several buckets
Hammers nails
A lot of rope and a lot of twine (actually very good for building)
Several tarpuleins
various seeds ( according to research)
several nets-- a long handled dip net would be ideal if we don't have a boat-- plus hooks and line
shovels, picks
A wide selection of capitalist reading materials (to save it from the censors elsewhere

	24-08-2004 05:52									#46
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Nope...no cars, but we can *maybe* get a small genny if we disassemble it first...or if we can't keep the boat anyway, maybe we can strip it down?

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:54									#47
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good list, Flub....I'd say on principle that we'll need that list for every...eh...seven to ten people who come this way. If we can get one in ten people to bring those things, we'll be well-stocked where tools and basic supplies are concerned.

That, coupled with the native sources we can find (vines for rope, trees for building materials), and we should be able to set up stock yards (if there are native animals to domesticate), and basic housing, plus have a goodish supply in reserve.

Another posting needed then....Quartermaster's office to handle our supplies until we move away from ad hoc....

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:56									#48
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dont count on domesticated animals - there are very few in the world, and none on these small islands.

	24-08-2004 05:58									#49
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Hmmm...LoA...any ideas how many chickens/roosters we'd need to bring in order to start up a little shake and bake farm then? That'd be more difficult to arrange, but vital, if we could arrange it. Prolly coulnd't do anything BUT chickens (everything else would be too big)....but if we could get enough so that it's sustainable with net growth.....

And I like the idea 'bout the fishing plots....will need to wait until we move away from ad hoc for that, but it's a good long term aim, for sure.

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 05:59									#50
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I also don't think Ludd would enjoy using animals that way

he might let them escape or something

Jon Miller

	24-08-2004 06:01									#51
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quote: Hmmm...LoA...any ideas how many chickens/roosters we'd need to bring in order to start up a little shake and bake farm then? That'd be more difficult to arrange, but vital, if we could arrange it. Prolly coulnd't do anything BUT chickens (everything else would be too big)....but if we could get enough so that it's sustainable with net growth.....

for fresh eggs, you wouldnt need many chickens/roosters, since you figure you will keep them for a long time (their entire life span) and you wont need to worry about cross-breeding families etc. for meat, youd need a steady flow to make sure they dont inbreed too much etc.

	24-08-2004 06:02									#52
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Also, even assuming that we are able to get the lights turned on, I think it's a safe assumption that we'll not be generating what I'd call "a significant amount" of electricity, so it'd have to be used, at least initially, for critical stuff only (to access CD's from the library of scanned books, to power whatever machines we can cobble together to make additional tools, etc). Everything else will have to wait till we can expand our supply of electricity.

LOL...JM...

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 06:04									#53
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Well, let's assume then that IF we get any chickens, we'll not have a sufficient number to actually eat them. Eggs, yep...prolly not many...it'd be a luxury, but we'd have a few. Still, might be worth doing. The diet won't be exciting folks, but hey....we won't have the Central Planning Committee glaring at us...

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 06:09									#54
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it would be easier and better to just grow soybeans for protein

and healthier

Jon Miller

	24-08-2004 06:10									#55
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ok i remember how the turbine works - the driveshaft spins a copper wire inside a magnetic field, which creates electricity. now how do we make a magnetic field? i wish i paid attention in physics class

	24-08-2004 06:11									#56
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hmm...and easier to get to the island too.

With space at a premium...yep, let's forego chickens then.

There goes a bit of the variety in our diet, but....given that we're kicked out of the homeland and starting over...we'll do variety later...

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 06:12									#57
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No idea, LoA..but I'll bet Google knows....we'll use it while we got it...

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 06:15									#58
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I'll be in charge of the agriculture as long as someone gets me some sheep, too.

	24-08-2004 06:15									#59
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In general, I propose that we create the following motion, and let our first elected President decide if or when to enact:

Initially, we must all band together in a singular location for ease of logistics, but THE MOMENT we move beyond self-sufficiency, I propose that we split the settlement (numbers permitting...at this point, I have no idea how many people we'll ultimately have...with the numbers at present, it's not possible), divide our resources and get two settlements up and running with all speed.

Not only does this *force* us to race toward developing the island, but it also gets all our eggs out of one basket. If something tragic were to happen (fire, flood, anything), then having two locations up and running would provide a measure of protection against that.

-=Vel=-

	24-08-2004 06:16									#60
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Ludd....not sure we can smuggle any, but if you put in a request to the Scrounger, mayhaps we can win a few in some lucky hands of poker....

-=Vel=-