25-08-2004 08:18									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Spec I know yours is, but you dont know for him. That's the point.

No, you said that *I dont really know that my life is better without drugs*. I just told you that I kind of do

	25-08-2004 08:19									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker He quit because his employer told him he can't keep using a medicine that helps his condition. He was going to keep playing until they wanted to suspend him for using that medicine and most people would be on his side if not for the government's decades long propaganda campaign demonising pot. If he was using Prozac would people care? Motivation is a peculiar thing, his decision was motivated by a concern for his health and an employer who doesn't care and you think that's an example of losing one's motivation? That's the thing about motivation - not everyone shares the same motivations. That's the nature of individuality, we are not Borg.

Come on though Berzerker, even all the potheads here will say that one of the side effects of pot (which is why they like it so much) is that it is a big downer. Alot of them will say, "how can people on pot be so violent, all they want to do is sit around on the couch, laugh, and eat Ruffles all day??"

The pot has had to have a huge factor in demotivating him.

	25-08-2004 08:20									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Who the fu*k is Drago. And how will I lose by smoking weed once a month or so? Be serious will ya. Spec.

I wasn't talking about weed.

I was talking about you losing to a Champion such as myself.

	25-08-2004 08:22									#94
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Lose at what?

Spec.

	25-08-2004 08:24									#95
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DP

	25-08-2004 08:28									#96
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quote: Although it probably isn't a good idea to take health advice from a NFL player

Ricky used one of the prescription drugs for his condition (Paxil I believe) but it caused problems with his diet. He used pot and said it worked 10 times better and didn't mess with his appetite. When dealing with mental conditions, all doctors can really do is ask "does that help" when prescribing drugs, so I'd sooner take the word of the patient than the doctor if there's a dispute about what works and what doesn't.

quote: reefer madness? Is that one of those after school special movies where the girl runs screaming and crashes through a window. That was hilarious. I want to get a hold of that one.

It was a 1930s propaganda piece (also known as "Tell Your Children") put out by the government and Hollywood depicting pot smokers as homicidal maniacs. About 15 years later the same government bureaucrat who helped make the movie told Congress pot was a communist plot to pacify Americans. So, pot smokers went from being soul-less murderers to pacifists

	25-08-2004 08:31									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Lose at what? Spec.

name it

	25-08-2004 08:34									#98
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quote: Because you probably never smoked it 4, 5 times a day for 2 or 3 years.

It's a question of self-control. One should always make it a point not to get stoned alone. Similarly, it's not a real problem if one who has social problems drinks, if one drinks with others.

	25-08-2004 08:39									#99
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I have freinds who go out and get absolutely wasted every night

it would not be good if I went out every night with them

Jon Miller

	25-08-2004 08:43									#100
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Obviously, one shouldn't do anything in excess. The point was that smoking pot wouldn't necessarily exacerbate social problems.

	25-08-2004 08:44									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The pot has had to have a huge factor in demotivating him.

That's wrong! He quit because he failed drug tests, and wouldn't have been allowed to do both. If the NFL didn't test for pot, he would've done both. All NFL experts that I've read agree with that statement.

Instead of living the league's way, he's living his way, and he has plenty of money to do it.

	25-08-2004 08:59									#102
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Ted -

quote: Come on though Berzerker, even all the potheads here will say that one of the side effects of pot (which is why they like it so much) is that it is a big downer. Alot of them will say, "how can people on pot be so violent, all they want to do is sit around on the couch, laugh, and eat Ruffles all day??"

Hmm... downer? I'd put it more in the mind trip/LSD category albeit a mild drug. I'm sure many people who smoke pot would rather kick back while "high", but many like to do things too. It's more of an individual thing...

As for his motivation, or lack thereof, he obviously has a different motivation now that the league is starting to suspend him. One more violation and he loses a year, not 4 games, and since he's obviously decided to keep using pot (for whatever reason) then that doesn't mean he lacks motivation to play ball. He just has competing motivations and one was imposed upon him by his employers. People tend to dis-like employers telling them what medicines they can or cannot use and Ricky uses medicinal pot (not that he would stop if it wasn't for medical reasons, that I don't know ).

quote: The pot has had to have a huge factor in demotivating him.

Your argument requires we accept your personal definition of motivation, what motivates you as opposed to what motivates others.

	25-08-2004 09:07									#103
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Meh, there are worse habits you could take up. There are also more enjoyable habits you could take up. Many of these fit both of the previous sentences.

I quit smoking pot because I got tired of being black hole stupid for a few hours, then falling asleep while everybody else is going strong.

	25-08-2004 09:08									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi I quit smoking pot because I got tired of being black hole stupid for a few hours, then falling asleep while everybody else is going strong.

The precise reason I only smoke when I'm with other people who are smoking. If I'm at a party, there's no way I'm gonna smoke.

	25-08-2004 09:10									#105
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quote: Whether or not he should do it is the issue and in my opinion (which is better than yours 100% of the time) he shouldn't do it, espeically if he is having social problems.

If Diss' current medication isn't doing the job, he should do some research and consider alternatives...and that includes pot... All he can do is try some and see what it does for his condition. If it doesn't work or makes it worse, don't use it. If it works, prepare to be punished by the moral people running.

	25-08-2004 09:14									#106
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There has been a lot of discussion tonight about pot's demotivating aspects. True, many people experience that as a side effect; I still smoke partially because I haven't yet.

Case in point: this summer, I probably smoked about 25 times. I still worked out 4 times a week, ran 5 times, got to play rehearsals and both jobs on time, and only missed one class out of 23 due to a missed train. I'd hardly call myself "demotivated".

	25-08-2004 09:14									#107
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Yup, I tried some recently and discovered it just wasn't the same so I'm definitely out of that scene maaaan.

	25-08-2004 09:23									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Ted - Hmm... downer? I'd put it more in the mind trip/LSD category albeit a mild drug. I'm sure many people who smoke pot would rather kick back while "high", but many like to do things too. It's more of an individual thing... As for his motivation, or lack thereof, he obviously has a different motivation now that the league is starting to suspend him. One more violation and he loses a year, not 4 games, and since he's obviously decided to keep using pot (for whatever reason) then that doesn't mean he lacks motivation to play ball. He just has competing motivations and one was imposed upon him by his employers. People tend to dis-like employers telling them what medicines they can or cannot use and Ricky uses medicinal pot (not that he would stop if it wasn't for medical reasons, that I don't know ). Your argument requires we accept your personal definition of motivation, what motivates you as opposed to what motivates others.

The problem is with this, Ricky had to have known all the way back to high school that smoking pot was at the top of the list of things that he shouldn't be doing if he wanted to play ball. Especially with all the written rules from the schools, and also the verbal rules laid down by the coaches.

He signed a contract which says he cannot smoke the pot and he knowingly went into it smoking the stuff.

As far as it being a medicine, there are probably alot better medicines out there that could treat his condition and they would still not only be legal, but they would let him continue to play ball.

Practically he could have fixed his problem and still played ball.

As far as my personal opinion goes, my observation says that pot smokers are more likely to give up than persevere through the tough times.

This doesn't initially happen, so you see kids doing it in their mid teens. You start to notice the lethargy in the late teens and early twenties. If they are still smoking it in their late 20s they have set themselves up for permanent long term damage.

	25-08-2004 09:34									#109
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous There has been a lot of discussion tonight about pot's demotivating aspects. True, many people experience that as a side effect; I still smoke partially because I haven't yet. Case in point: this summer, I probably smoked about 25 times. I still worked out 4 times a week, ran 5 times, got to play rehearsals and both jobs on time, and only missed one class out of 23 due to a missed train. I'd hardly call myself "demotivated".

\

you didn't smoke all that much

Jon Miller

	25-08-2004 09:37									#110
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I did smoke regularly though...that's the key

And I'd say 1/3rd of the summer is sufficient

EDIT: I probably would've smoked more, if a.) my town didn't run dry midway through July and b.) I had the money to afford more

	25-08-2004 09:40									#111
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But you are young


You can do lots of stupid things and get away with it when you're young

	25-08-2004 09:40									#112
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I gotta ask this - is there anything you can say to a pot smoker to realize they're jeopardizing a lot by continuing to smoke? My younger brother (age 19) has now been caught with pot twice in the past few months by our mom. He's living with her after a failed first year of college. The first time it was the middle of the night and my mom was just curious where he had gone and discovered him lighting up outside. She told him to clean up or he wouldn't be living there. Then she moves his car and discovers weed in it. He claims it isn't his but even if that's the case he's obviously a dumbass for holding someone else's stash.

So what can I say? I'm pretty sure my mom is going with three strikes you're out which means he'll be kicked out if caught again. I doubt my dad would take him in since he was threatening drug testing. The worst part is that I don't think he realizes that he could be homeless with one more screwup.

	25-08-2004 09:48									#113
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I'm sorry for your family. There are centers where someone can go if they feel they need help to stop allowing marijuana to have a negative effect on them.

My mom's known I've smoked pot since I was 19 (I turn 21 in a matter of days). She decided that since I'm an adult, and I've been living on my own for two years, that she's not gonna stop me from doing something I want to, but she's also not gonna bail me out if I get caught.

	25-08-2004 09:51									#114
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quote: The problem is with this, Ricky had to have known all the way back to high school that smoking pot was at the top of the list of things that he shouldn't be doing if he wanted to play ball. Especially with all the written rules from the schools, and also the verbal rules laid down by the coaches.

I don't know when he started, but even if he wasn't told (we never were in the 70s), he should have known. But there is a natural tendency to reject "rules" that infringe upon autonomy, especially in such an immoral way (just look at compliance rates with alcohol prohibition and the drug war).

quote: He signed a contract which says he cannot smoke the pot and he knowingly went into it smoking the stuff.

I'm not sure about that, he signed up with Miami before there was a pot ban I believe. But assuming the contract could legally be amended by the league to add pot to it's list of no-nos, he has followed the contract. The contract was not nullified by smoking pot, it merely allowed one party to punish the other party with fines/suspensions if need be. That's part of the contract and Ricky decided to retire which is undoubtedly allowed under the contract as well.

quote: As far as it being a medicine, there are probably alot better medicines out there that could treat his condition and they would still not only be legal, but they would let him continue to play ball.

He was on at least one, he was a spokesman for Paxil. But he compared it to pot and concluded Paxil was inferior...

quote: Practically he could have fixed his problem and still played ball.

Apparently not, again, you are looking at him thru your value system, not his. What's the saying, "walk a mile in their shoes first"?

quote: As far as my personal opinion goes, my observation says that pot smokers are more likely to give up than persevere through the tough times.

Well that would be fine with me if a pot smoker ever tries to murder me.

quote: This doesn't initially happen, so you see kids doing it in their mid teens. You start to notice the lethargy in the late teens and early twenties. If they are still smoking it in their late 20s they have set themselves up for permanent long term damage.

Those are the years I smoked but motivation is a subjective concept. How does one accurately apply their own value system to others? You say Ricky lost his motivation... to play football more than anything else, yes...he did. How does that translate into a lack of motivation? It merely means playing football was no longer his top priority. And if he was smoking all that time and from before, how does that impact your argument about motivation? Sounds like he was motivated all that time by your standard.

	25-08-2004 09:56									#115
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Yay Pot! Go for it Diss.

I would be high right now but my wife washed if in my pants pocket. Smoke one for me Diss.

	25-08-2004 09:58									#116
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Berzerker, when someone is paying you a bunch of money to work for them, it is common sense to play by THEIR book not yours.

I don't like alot of the rules my employer has but I go along with them because they pay my check every 2 weeks.

Secondly, since pot is illegal across the whole US, it's common sense this day and age that he would get in trouble for doing it. Ricky grew up in the "Just Say No," generation, so it was pretty apparent that pot was included in that.

Regarding the motivation, it sounds like Ricky got burned out doing something he was good at, and I think the pot was the catalyst for reaching that point sooner than later.

	25-08-2004 10:04									#117
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Ted - I understand your argument if we deal with generalities, there may be less motivation among pot smokers over all than people who don't smoke. But how do we know the motivation of all these people before smoking pot? Maybe people who are generally less motivated are drawn to pot as something to do and more motivated people generally avoid it. Argh, who knows...

	25-08-2004 10:06									#118
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I would say that's a fair argument.

	25-08-2004 10:13									#119
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous I did smoke regularly though...that's the key And I'd say 1/3rd of the summer is sufficient EDIT: I probably would've smoked more, if a.) my town didn't run dry midway through July and b.) I had the money to afford more

smoking regularly is smoking everyday

Jon miller

	25-08-2004 10:15									#120
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Ted -

quote: Berzerker, when someone is paying you a bunch of money to work for them, it is common sense to play by THEIR book not yours.

He is, their book has a rule about players who smoke pot. His rule violation doesn't negate the contract nor does it allow the league to sue him - it allows the league to suspend him for repeated violations and faced with that reality he retired. And those same rules allow him to come back next year so he's getting his suspension out of the way by sitting out the year.

quote: I don't like alot of the rules my employer has but I go along with them because they pay my check every 2 weeks.

This ain't some rule about how you conduct yourself at work, this rule strikes at the heart of a person's autonomy. The employer is telling the employee what medicine he can or cannot use. Seriously, if you were on some medication you found effective and your employer told you to stop taking it because of politics, would you obey or tell him to stick it? Ricky can afford the latter...

quote: Secondly, since pot is illegal across the whole US, it's common sense this day and age that he would get in trouble for doing it. Ricky grew up in the "Just Say No," generation, so it was pretty apparent that pot was included in that.

I guess he wasn't among those saying "no"

quote: Regarding the motivation, it sounds like Ricky got burned out doing something he was good at, and I think the pot was the catalyst for reaching that point sooner than later.

He got burned alright, burning mad. We'll see, I bet he'll be back next year, maybe with the Raiders.