29-08-2004 13:51									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten What are the Tories going to do foreign policy-wise if they gain power at the expense of gaining the ire of the US administration?

Something less detrimental to Britain's self interests than tying the Union Jack to the sinking ship of American foreign policy?

	29-08-2004 13:51									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: you will be guaranteed of Liberal/Labour governments in these countries for the next decade or so. And after Blair leaves, the next Labor head will probably be less pro-Bush, seeing as how Blair needed Conservative votes to get Britain to go to Iraq (of course that was before the whole WMD doesn't exist thing came out).

The point remains that being pro-Bush and pro-Iraq is a sure path to the scrap heap for Conservative electoral prospects in Canada (and, I suspect, in Britain).

	29-08-2004 13:52									#93
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quote: Something less detrimental to Britain's self interests than tying the Union Jack to the sinking ship of American foreign policy?

British firms will be making a hell of a lot more money in Iraq than French or Canadian ones...

	29-08-2004 13:56									#94
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quote: British firms will be making a hell of a lot more money in Iraq than French or Canadian ones...

Strike one. Go read the amended procurement protocols.

	29-08-2004 13:59									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Should Conservative parties from Canada or Britain not distance themselves from the naked emperor in the sands of Iraq, you will be guaranteed of Liberal/Labour governments in these countries for the next decade or so. Whether Conservatives are stupid enough to go along with Bush in everything that has gone on is a litmus test for whether they should be given a sniff of power. I agree to a certain extent (on the attitude of the electorate in Canada and the UK), but I disagree that the Conservatives are going to get a sniff at power because of this, in the UK at least. I don't see Howard becoming PM anytime soon. If he does become PM because of this, then more power to him. If he doesn't, however, the Tories are going to have his head soon enough for destroying relations with the Republicans for no discernable gain.

This issue doesn't get them power. It can deny them power. There is a big difference.

	29-08-2004 13:59									#96
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Nice try at deflection, however.

I remember when the UK had an independent foreign policy and when others listened to them with respect instead of viewing them as merely a mouthpiece for American foreign policy idiocy....

	29-08-2004 14:01									#97
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quote: This issue doesn't get them power. It can deny them power. There is a big difference.

If that's all you're saying, then I agree with you. Seems like a high price to pay for just a shot at power, but then again these are politicians we're talking about. Not exactly concerned with the long-term.

	29-08-2004 14:02									#98
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quote: I remember when the UK had an independent foreign policy and when others listened to them with respect instead of viewing them as merely a mouthpiece for American foreign policy idiocy....

And I look forward to the day when Canada may develop a foreign policy.

	29-08-2004 14:03									#99
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That's why Bush's reaction (Rove's) is strange. Don't those guys have a clue how politics work?

	29-08-2004 14:03									#100
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quote: And I look forward to the day when Canada may develop a foreign policy

The man in my avatar mocks your ignorance.

	29-08-2004 14:06									#101
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It's not as if a Conservative government in Britain is going to pull out of NATO and go Soviet.

If Blair is unelectable because of Iraq, there is nothing the Conservatives could do to help you. If they tried, you might wake up to find a very unwelcome development. A more radical development, and one that would be a whole shitload less pro American than anything you've ever dreamt of from London.

	29-08-2004 14:07									#102
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quote: That's why Bush's reaction (Rove's) is strange. Don't those guys have a clue how politics work?

I'm sure they know why Howard is doing this. I just don't think they care. The War on Terror is their sacred cow and this is a message to Howard and others not to **** with them on this.

quote: If Blair is unelectable because of Iraq, there is nothing the Conservatives could do to help you. If they tried, you might wake up to find a very unwelcome development. A more radical development, and one that would be a whole shitload less pro American than anything you've ever dreamt of from London.

True, but this scenario depends on Blair being unelectable. Rove must not think he is and the man knows his stuff.

quote: The man in my avatar mocks your ignorance.

Can he beat back the Danish menace?

	29-08-2004 14:08									#103
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We just *****-slapped the Danes on fisheries issues.

Why would we fear a bunch of drunken pornmongers?

	29-08-2004 14:10									#104
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We also send corrupt ex-bureaucrats to be the ambassador to Denmark because we don't give a flying **** what those washed-up Norsemen think.

	29-08-2004 14:12									#105
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*insert pictrure of maple leaf bending Denmark over a stool and giving it the rogering of a lifetime

	29-08-2004 14:12									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: That's why Bush's reaction (Rove's) is strange. Don't those guys have a clue how politics work? I'm sure they know why Howard is doing this. I just don't think they care. The War on Terror is their sacred cow and this is a message to Howard and others not to **** with them on this.

If true, they are ****ed. They would care not what other people think, or what reality is. They would only care about their own welfare and no one elses.

	29-08-2004 14:12									#107
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quote: Why would we fear a bunch of drunken pornmongers?

They have the same vices as you, thus making it easy for them to understand the Canadian psyche and defeat you. I think Sun Tzu mentioned a similar situation in The Art of War. It involved drunken pornmongers, at the very least.

	29-08-2004 14:14									#108
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Anyway, the point is that the Bush administration acts like a spoiled child when it comes to criticism. **** 'em. They make it easy to score cheap points by telling them to sod off. Elections in Britain are going to start revolving around who can put as much distance between themselves and the US if this keeps up.

	29-08-2004 14:15									#109
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quote: If true, they are ****ed. They would care not what other people think, or what reality is. They would only care about their own welfare and no one elses.

I don't think they care about the War on Terror so much for their own welfare. Whether you agree with their view or not, I think it's clear that the Bush administration views the War on Terror as a threat to the welfare of the whole world, which is why they react so aggressively against those they believe are weakening the cause. Very similar to the American Cold War mindset, which is why I brought that conflict up earlier.

	29-08-2004 14:16									#110
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Maybe the picture of Blair posing with Dubya will dog him as much as the one where Cheney's pumping Saddam's hand and smiling for the cameras.

	29-08-2004 14:17									#111
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Don't you mean Rumsfeld?

	29-08-2004 14:19									#112
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Whatever. One of the douchebags running your country. They all sort of blend together after a while.

	29-08-2004 14:20									#113
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Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to "choose" between douchebags this November.

Then again, the Candian elections this year did seem to have a high percentage of ****ing douches in the running. Maybe you understand my pain all too well...

	29-08-2004 14:23									#114
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I'd choose the one which hasn't had the chance to prove its monumental incompetence yet (the worst since before WWII in my opinion).

Vote for Bush. I'm serious. It makes me happy to see people abusing themselves.

	29-08-2004 14:24									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten True, but this scenario depends on Blair being unelectable. Rove must not think he is and the man knows his stuff.

I should want to trust the opinions of the leaders of parties in the actual country being debated. Maybe that's just me. Call me old fashioned if you will.

Now, I'm sure Laz will be along shortly to assure us that Tories are indeed idiots, and that Rove does indeed have a better grasp of the situation than they ever could.

Also, the actual scenario is what the Tories think can win them an election, and what could lose it for them. Being pro Iraq sure as hell could lose it for them. To get rid of the stink they have to go farther than anyone else, because people imagine them to be the most ready and willing to sign up for such things.

	29-08-2004 14:25									#116
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quote: Then again, the Candian elections this year did seem to have a high percentage of ****ing douches in the running

The Bushies are head and shoulders above all their competition, both domestic and foreign.

	29-08-2004 14:25									#117
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I'm not voting for either. The only question for me is whether I'm voting at all. The third parties are **** this year and the odds of my absentee ballot being counted at all are pretty slim. Not sure if it is worth the effort.

quote: The Bushies are head and shoulders above all their competition, both domestic and foreign.

Kerry passed Bush in the douchebag sweepstakes long ago. At least Bush might be fun to have a beer (or a line ) with...

	29-08-2004 14:27									#118
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quote: Now, I'm sure Laz will be along shortly to assure us that Tories are indeed idiots, and that Rove does indeed have a better grasp of the situation than they ever could.

He (Laz) is a smart man.

	29-08-2004 14:28									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: If true, they are ****ed. They would care not what other people think, or what reality is. They would only care about their own welfare and no one elses. I don't think they care about the War on Terror so much for their own welfare. Whether you agree with their view or not, I think it's clear that the Bush administration views the War on Terror as a threat to the welfare of the whole world, which is why they react so aggressively against those they believe are weakening the cause. Very similar to the American Cold War mindset, which is why I brought that conflict up earlier.

Are they planning on burning down the village of Britain to save it?

	29-08-2004 14:29									#120
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quote: Are they planning on burning down the village of Britain to save it?

Where'd that non-sequitur come from?