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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:24
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Alot of discussion about the terrorism in Russia lately has led to alot analysis and fingerpointing, and parallels with the west and its own war on terror.
Many Americans blamed the Russians and Putin as being heavy handed, blaming their tactics as the encouraging the terrorism but have not been so quick to do the same with Bush and the USA.
This article believes that the attacks further strengthen Putin because he has staked his entire career on ending the Chechen resistance through military force. The attacks make the average Russian want to punish the terrorists, and they feel Putin is the best man for the job.
It also says corruption in the Russian Army and super high unemployment in the region are big factors in the latest terror attacks.
In any case, this is one of the most disgusting acts in history, and there is absolutley no excuse or justitication for it. NONE, whatsover.
quote:
Observers believe the rampant corruption in the poorly-paid Russian armed forces has contributed to the mobility of the Chechen fighters — wads of cash (raised through criminal extortion or donations from jihadi-sympathizers abroad) has often proven a more effective weapon than a rocket launcher in the hands of separatist fighters looking to break through Russian lines. The heavy-handed tactics of Moscow's forces has alienated even many of those Chechens who had initially welcomed their arrival as deliverance from the violent chaos of criminality and warlordism that had prevailed under the de facto independence won from Moscow in 1996. And the state of the Chechen economy after five years of war also works to the advantage of the men of war — with unemployment at around 80 percent, the job prospects for many fighting-age Chechen men are restricted to joining the pro-Moscow militias or doing contract work for the rebels. (Bombing an oil pipeline, for example is believed to earn a Chechen fighter in the region of $400, a princely sum in a pauperized population.) And for many, particularly the "black widows" who have seen fathers, brothers and husbands killed by the Russian security forces, revenge is as powerful a motive as money — the suicide bombers of both airliners and the subway station are believed to be Chechen women who had lost loved ones in the war. But the cycle of violence spirals downwards, as increasingly savage terror bring new crackdowns from the authorities and further dim the prospects for a political solution. |
http://www.time.com/time/world/arti...00.html?cnn=yes
Last edited by Ted Striker on 05-09-2004 at 10:03
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:24
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Hundreds of murdered children changes everything. It just got real personal for the average Russian who had little interest before.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:24
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Please explain...
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:24
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I was damn mad on 9-11. However, they hadn't gone after a school with hundreds of little children. Think again, can you imagine? If I'm a 46 year old Russian, I'm lining up at the army recruiting, demanding an AK47 and a unit.
9-11 was a nasty attack. Police, firemen... This is an atrocity, this is little children. To me, it seems alot worse. Hell, I'm an American living in bum**** oregon, and I'm ready to go right now.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:24
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So, aside from us getting on a plane for Russia, forming up into some funky squad of west coast flakes... My only point is that Russia is about to go to war, whether they know it or not, their people will give them no choice. When they do, if they go about it as Russians always do, well I'll support them as what they are giving is better than what they got, and better than their enemies deserve.
Our enemies...
Last edited by Lancer on 05-09-2004 at 05:59
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:24
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don't yall hate extremists? the Chechens were in the right this whole time. They were being oppressed by the Russians when they should have been given their independence with the collapse of the USSR. The russians were doing them very wrong.
unfortunately, the Chechen extremists just burned all their bridges with this one. The hostage situation in that theater a year ago was bad enough but this? what good for the Chechens could possibly come out of this? are they just being fatalistic?
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:24
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quote:
The recent referendum was certified as fair by the international observers. In fact, it's quite likely that the opposition petition which started the referendum only managed to make the signature limit by forging signatures (which is what Chavez had claimed) since they got nowhere near the same amount of votes in the referendum.
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Charge/counter-charge, eh?
Well, this is what I've heard.
Evidence of an electoral fraud is growing
Enrique ter Horst IHT Wednesday, August 18, 2004
Chávez and the vote
CARACAS The perception that a massive electronic fraud led to President Hugo Chávez's mandate not being cut short in the recall referendum on Sunday is rapidly gaining ground in Venezuela. All exit polls carried out on the day had given the opposition an advantage of between 12 percent and 19 percent. But preliminary results announced by the government-controlled National Electoral Council at 3:30 a.m. gave Chávez 58.2 percent of the vote, against 41.7 percent for the opposition.
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At first people scratched their heads in disbelief, including many Chávez supporters, but accepted these figures after César Gaviria, secretary general of the Organization of American States, and former President Jimmy Carter said their own quick counts coincided with the electoral council's figures. Two days after the referendum, however, evidence is growing that the software of the touch-screen voting machines had been tampered with. The opposition has requested that the votes be recounted manually and that the boxes holding the voting papers, currently stored in army garrisons, be put under the custody of international observers.
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Chávez had to be dragged kicking and screaming into holding the presidential recall referendum, even though it had been provided for by his Constitution. He was conscious that two-thirds of the people opposed his Cuban-inspired "revolutionary project" and his autocratic, aggressive style.
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Two petitions were necessary to overcome the electoral council's tricks and delaying tactics. After the second petition was declared valid, under strong national and international pressure, and after having poured billions of dollars into social programs, Chávez accepted that the referendum be held Aug. 15.
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The electoral council has stated that the voting machines were audited after the vote, but the council did so in the absence of any opposition representative or any international observer. A cause for even greater concern is the fact that the papers the new machines produced confirming the voter's choice - which the voter had to verify and then drop into a closed box - were not added up and compared with the final numbers these machines produce at the end of the voting process, as the voting-machine manufacturer had suggested.
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Evidence of foul play has surfaced. In the town of Valle de la Pascua, where papers were counted at the initiative of those manning the voting center, the Yes vote had been cut by more than 75 percent, and the entire voting material was seized by the national guard shortly after the difference was established.
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Three machines in a voting center in the state of Bolivar that has generally voted against Chávez all showed the same 133 votes for the Yes option, and higher numbers for the No option. Two other machines registered 126 Yes votes and much higher votes for the No. The opposition alleges that these machines, which can both send and receive information, were reprogrammed to start adjudicating all votes to the No option after a given number of Yes votes has been registered.
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Although the Organization of American States and the Carter Center have called the election free and fair, their quick count justifying this statement was also based only on the numbers provided by the voting machines. The two organizations had brokered an agreement to examine, in the presence of government and opposition representatives, a sample of 150 voting points chosen at random. A comparison of the results printed out by these machines with the papers contained in the corresponding boxes was to be concluded this week. But the opposition now wants all machines and ballot boxes to be examined.
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This is not just another election in a country where political actors abide by democratic rules and civilized behavior. It is an election where a choice of society is being made, and where one side is prepared to use any method to remain in power, even elections if it is assured of "winning" them.
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Enrique ter Horst, a Venezuelan national, is a lawyer and political analyst in Caracas. A former assistant secretary general of the United Nations, he headed the UN peacekeeping operations in El Salvador and Haiti, and was the UN Deputy High Commissioner of Human Rights.
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05-09-2004 04:46
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