08-09-2004 21:13									#241
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Solomwi

Unemployment is a necessary social program, IMO. It is things like Welfare that I have a problem with.

Unemployment will always be positive, something to do with economics or something... Still, that doesn't mean that it will be the same person who is unemployed all the time. People are hire, fired, and layed off all the time. It is those ppl who don't even bother to look for employment that need their benefits cut (destroyed).

	08-09-2004 21:13									#242
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi I pretend nothing. I'm simply pointing out that there are always options that don't require theft. I can see it's pretty pointless, though, as you're inexorably tied to the notion that those currently on welfare will have to steal food to survive. It's simply not true.

You will keep saying that while they are starving I'm sure. No. You guys just pretend to be this ignorant about other people's situations.

	08-09-2004 21:15									#243
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quote: You will keep saying that while they are starving I'm sure. No. You guys just pretend to be this ignorant about other people's situations.

Why would they pretend to be ignorant?

Even in Fresno there is always work... ALWAYS

	08-09-2004 21:15									#244
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious They would steal bread too if they have to.

So your solution is to legalize the theft of food? Good idea, now let's see how long it will take before farmers, bakeries, and other food producers decide to either change their product, get out of the business altogether or make it as close to physically impossible to steal their food as they can, thereby necessitating higher prices for the food that does reach the market. Of course, that wouldn't matter, because who's going to pay for food when they can just get away with stealing it?

	08-09-2004 21:18									#245
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller no there isn't it especially not that can feed you (and your kid) Jon Miller

Yes, there is. There's always work (the ideal solution); it's just a matter of finding it. There's always charity; it's just a matter of swallowing your pride. There's always criminal activity; it's just a matter of being prepared to face the consequences.

	08-09-2004 21:18									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi No, I don't know damn well that there aren't enough jobs. I do know that, when unemployed, I was always able to scrape together odd jobs to pass the time until something in my field came along. I do know that this has applied to everybody I've known that was unemployed for a while, too. I also know there is always somebody needing somebody else to do something.

You know lots of unemployed people huh? Yes I'm sure they did just fine while they were unemployed. Oh, maybe they had to sell a few stocks or borrow money from mommy.

NOT EVERYONE HAS A SUPPORT SYSTEM!

	08-09-2004 21:19									#247
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You know lots of unemployed people huh? Yes I'm sure they did just fine while they were unemployed. Oh, maybe they had to sell a few stocks or borrow money from mommy. NOT EVERYONE HAS A SUPPORT SYSTEM!

Again you speak of that of which you know nothing. Fact is they supported themselves, as I did, by beating the bushes and finding things people needed done, then offering to do them for a reasonable price. It's not a difficult concept.

	08-09-2004 21:21									#248
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quote: It's not a difficult concept.

If ppl have to fend for themselves though Kid's whole system of communism flies out the door!

	08-09-2004 21:23									#249
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Point, Japher.

	08-09-2004 21:24									#250
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Why would they pretend to be ignorant? Even in Fresno there is always work... ALWAYS

hehe. No there certainly isn't. I'm sorry. I didn't think you would fall for this crap too.

This is a simple verifiable fact. Anyone is free to call temp agencies and ask them if they always hire every worker every day. I can tell you for sure that they don't, because there aren't enough jobs. That's an experience that I have that many libertarians, and I guess you, haven't had. It's easy to repeat a same lie that you have been told by your parents and others about there always being a job for everyone, but not so easy if you have experienced unemployment.

	08-09-2004 21:25									#251
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Kid, nobody said you have to go through a temp agency. They don't cover every job that's out there, and have no need to hire those with no skills that fit the jobs they do cover.

	08-09-2004 21:26									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Again you speak of that of which you know nothing. Fact is they supported themselves, as I did, by beating the bushes and finding things people needed done, then offering to do them for a reasonable price. It's not a difficult concept.

Step out of your own experience for a moment. It's called empathy. Others have different experience than you.

	08-09-2004 21:28									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Kid, nobody said you have to go through a temp agency. They don't cover every job that's out there, and have no need to hire those with no skills that fit the jobs they do cover.

Why the blast do you think people go there. Because they can't find a job by themselves. Dang, really. ****. Come on. You need to walk out into the real world.

	08-09-2004 21:30									#254
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Che, are you referring to Riley's tax package, Siegelman's lottery proposal or something else entirely?

Your gov's tax package.

	08-09-2004 21:31									#255
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As I've said, I have no problem putting myself in another's shoes. I have yet to see anyone living in a free society whose situation led me to the conclusion that stealing food was the best way to go. It may be the easiest, but it's never the only, and rarely, if ever, the best solution.

Now, lest you think I'm completely heartless, I've read plenty of accounts of people in totalitarian societies, and seen a few firsthand, where I would come to the conclusion that stealing a loaf of bread may be the best way to go, but never in a free society.

	08-09-2004 21:32									#256
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Nobody's creating a system where people have to steal food. How do the abject poor eat without welfare? You say get a job, but what if there isn't any in their area? Then they'll steal food.

Commie.

	08-09-2004 21:34									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi As I've said, I have no problem putting myself in another's shoes.

I'm telling you about my experiences. You insist on telling me that that experience is wrong. There are plenty of others who tell you what they see too. You are simply choosing no to believe it. That's what I'm talking about. It's just crazy.

	08-09-2004 21:36									#258
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi I have yet to see anyone living in a free society whose situation led me to the conclusion that stealing food was the best way to go. It may be the easiest, but it's never the only, and rarely, if ever, the best solution.

Before welfare programs were created, theft for survival was quite common. No capitalist society has yet produced full employment, and charity has never been as great as libertarians would like to pretend. When Shurbs dad, Bush, was Prez, 9,000 people lined up for 200 jobs at a Sheraton hotel, hardly a good job. I remember that winter well. I didn't get a single job to which I applied, and I wasn't discriminating. I finally did get a job for ten hours a week. I needed to steal food that year, and I did.

	08-09-2004 21:39									#259
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I'm telling you about my experiences. You insist on telling me that that experience is wrong. There are plenty of others who tell you what they see too. You are simply choosing no to believe it. That's what I'm talking about. It's just crazy.

No, I'm simply believing the truth that you, nor che, exhausted every option before resorting to stealing food (assuming, as you imply, that you stole food to survive).

	08-09-2004 21:41									#260
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No, I didn't excercise the option to starve to death, sorry.

	08-09-2004 21:42									#261
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Thief. You should be locked up for not starving.

	08-09-2004 21:44									#262
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I did plenty of begging and mooching, and I made just barely enough money to pay the bills. But we just didn't have enough food. 1990-91 was probably the roughest time I've ever faced.

	08-09-2004 22:04									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi No, I'm simply believing the truth that you, nor che, exhausted every option before resorting to stealing food (assuming, as you imply, that you stole food to survive).

Well, not recognizing simple facts is just fanatical. Your whole ideology is based on the assumption that no one ever has to steal food. It's an observable fact that your assumption is false. All you can do is pretend that you don't see something. I can say hey watch out for that falling rock, but you can still pretend that the rock doesn't exist I guess if you don' t look up or move. That's just about as sane as libertarian ideology.

	08-09-2004 22:06									#264
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara . . . is an idiot and has probably done more damage to the economy than any single person alive. This is the man that yanked the rug out from under the Clinton boom and the Bush recovery. He needs to be taken to a muddy field and shot.

Greenspan had to cover for other idiotic policies, He can not let the money supply go to infinity.

	08-09-2004 22:09									#265
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quote: Well, not recognizing simple facts is just fanatical. Your whole ideology is based on the assumption that no one ever has to steal food. It's an observable fact that your assumption is false. All you can do is pretend that you don't see something. I can say hey watch out for that falling rock, but you can still pretend that the rock doesn't exist I guess if you don' t look up or move. That's just about as sane as libertarian ideology.

And than you assume that ppl can't do anything for themselves, but somehow are not at all lazy or unwilling to take any job that comes along. That assumption is also false. Even we acknowledge the rock and point out that it is not falling you still act like chicken little.

	08-09-2004 22:13									#266
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Well, not recognizing simple facts is just fanatical. Your whole ideology is based on the assumption that no one ever has to steal food. It's an observable fact that your assumption is false. All you can do is pretend that you don't see something. I can say hey watch out for that falling rock, but you can still pretend that the rock doesn't exist I guess if you don' t look up or move. That's just about as sane as libertarian ideology.

Yes, insanity to require people to legally fend for themselves.

	08-09-2004 22:15									#267
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha Greenspan had to cover for other idiotic policies, He can not let the money supply go to infinity.

He raised interest rates to slow down the "overheating" economy, i.e., to deliberately raise unemployment to act as a brake on wage increases which he felt raised a danger of inflation. The moment he did so, the economy tilted towards recession.

When concerned about the stock bubble, rather than raising the rates on margins, he again raised the prime rate.

He stated that Bush's tax cuts were a good idea, even though the resulting deficit has begun to cause inflation, and has utterly filed to produce anything close to the results that Bush claimed it would (300,000 new jobs a month).

He raised interest rates at the same time when rising oil prices were already hurting our recovery.

The man is dangerous and needs to be replaced. His only claim to fame is refusing to raise rates earlier in the Clinton boom, which was hardly a brillaint idea.

	08-09-2004 22:15									#268
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Do you ever get the urge to chuck in your job and go on the dole just to piss off the libertarians?

	08-09-2004 22:16									#269
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No. The dole doesn't pay well enough. Another $500 a month would make it worth it just to spite them.

	08-09-2004 22:32									#270
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Since seeing the seagulls in "Finding Nemo" I've had trouble reading posts by Libertarians

quote: Originally posted by some random whingeing Libertarian Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine!Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine!

See what I mean? Welcome to my world.