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Would you vote for McCain? (Time out:0 days after 10-09-2004, 13:14)
I am American, and would vote for McCain
I am American, and would NOT vote for McCain
I am a Eurocom or non American, and would vote for McCain
I am a Eurocom or non American, and would not vote for McCain
I move to extradite everyone to the banana republic
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rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 21:25
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My wife hates GWB.
She was watching the hurricane coverage on the local Florida stations. She was quite impressed everytime Jeb was trotted out. She kept making comments about it's too bad he's not the one in the white house. My wife has been cancelling out my vote for years, but if she was impressed by Jeb, the dynasty has a chance.

As a side note, he has always impressed me more than GW.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 21:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
He really helped New York City and reduce crime substantially.


That had more to do with demographics than anything else. Even areas which didn't have tough on crime politicians saw dramatic drops in crime.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 21:35 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rah
My wife hates GWB.
She was watching the hurricane coverage on the local Florida stations. She was quite impressed everytime Jeb was trotted out.


You know how I am. Jeb is a halfway decent governor. Don't get me wrong, he's a bastard as far as respecting democracy goes, but he takes care of the environment and he takes caare of his citizens. He's an effective, if evil, governor.

NeOmega is offline NeOmega
Prince
Play Pentagenesis Beta!
Feb 2002
time: 21:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 22:46
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Got spare money?

McCain is no centerist, and he was the sponsor of the entirely unrealistic, and 1st amendment quashing McCain-Feingold bill.

I don't see why people peg him as anything less than right wing.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 22:51 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


You know how I am. Jeb is a halfway decent governor. Don't get me wrong, he's a bastard as far as respecting democracy goes, but he takes care of the environment and he takes caare of his citizens. He's an effective, if evil, governor.


Am I reading this right? A commie likes a member of the Bush family?

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
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Jan 1970
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 22:56
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And Jeb's pretty fluent in Spanish. That's got to be worth a few votes.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:23
  Old Post 10-09-2004 23:50
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I'm voting for Alan Keyes in 2008.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 23:58 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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I'll be voting for Pekka in 2024.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 10-09-2004 23:59
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FP: they'd have to amend the consitution for that

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:01 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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obama's speaking doesn't turn moderates off so much as his policies. that said, i like obama.

then again, it's not like the Dear Leader says or does anything that brings moderates to him.

kerry is a douchebag, bush is a ****tard, and badarnik is a crook. last time we had a crook for president, a few good things happened: vietnam ended, epa was founded, scandals were revealed and proved that our democracy is strong.

i might just go and vote badarnik. he seems like the least of all evils, and with the electoral college, it's not like my vote will matter anyway--GA will go for bush, and IL for kerry.

for 2008? i don't know. mccain isn't half bad, nor is giuliani. i don't mind edwards too much, except now he seems like a dan quayle, i do like obama. i dislike frist and santorum, and i don't trust condi rice.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:12
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


That had more to do with demographics than anything else. Even areas which didn't have tough on crime politicians saw dramatic drops in crime.


Considering that New York City holds close to four percent of the United States total population, any change there would have a significant effect on national crime rates.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:18 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Q, Badnarik is a crook...? I'm not really familiar with him but from what I hear I don't like his policies.. just want to know why you say that.

Yeah and the last time the US had a crook, he resigned from office.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:20 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

quote:
Q, Badnarik is a crook...? I'm not really familiar with him but from what I hear I don't like his policies.. just want to know why you say that.

Yeah and the last time the US had a crook, he resigned from office.

i don't like taxes, but badarnik's evaded them for ages. besides, the guy doesn't make me want to trust him, and i disagree with some of his policies.

however, between a ****tard, a douchebag, or a crook, i think a crook is the least evil.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:21 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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I like the ****tard more if you want honesty... not that I consider Bush one, just going by your standards..

Japher is offline Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:22
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I like McCain more than I like Bush...

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:26 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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McCain makes some great oven chips.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:29
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McCain is a fine man and I hope he decides to run in 2008. I recall in 2000 he said he'd never run again if he didn't get the Republican nomination so I don't have much faith that he'll change his mind.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:30 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
McCain is a fine man and I hope he decides to run in 2008. I recall in 2000 he said he'd never run again if he didn't get the Republican nomination so I don't have much faith that he'll change his mind.


Yeah but don't you think he might retire pretty soon? He is getting pretty old..

Admiral is offline Admiral
Warlord
of the peace and coexistance movement
Feb 2001
time: 00:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:32
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For all the talk that Bush is dominating the polls, and that Kerry has no chance, you are overlooking a couple of key factors. First, in a technical sense, the popular vote doesn't matter. And in the states, currently Kerry has 252 votes to Bush's 254. Florida and Nevada are tied. All Kerry would have to do would be to win Florida, and he'd be in the whitehouse. That would also allow Colorodo, currently in the Kerry camp but rather unlikely to vote for him, to swing to Bush. Also, if the ammendment there to divide the EC votes proportionally manages to pass, it will apply to this election, and Kerry would likely recieve 4 out of the 9, which, if Bush takes Florida but Kerry picks up Pennsylvania (which he is likely to, and where he is only behind by a couple of points) that also would put him into the whitehouse. Also, bear in mind that the tie in the EC, which would normally be resolved by the house, likely won't occur, as a WV elector for Bush has promised not to vote for him (based upon data from www.electoral-vote.com).
Also, Kerry went down in the national polls due really to two things: the swift boat ads and ensuing controversy, and the Bush rephrasing of the election solely in terms of safety for America. With all the material coming out now about Bush and lying about his national guard record (interesting piece by Paul Krugman in the NYTimes. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/o.../10krugman.html), that could start to have the same effect as swift boat, especially with the help of some attack ads (also, that biography coming out about him, I forget who by, could create some controversy). Also, with the Iraq conflict not looking any brighter, and a rash of new casualties, some swing voters could well start to doubt Bush's war-president image (let's face it, the "mission accomplished" stunt wasn't exactly the most strategically brilliant move).
Finally, Zogby, the offical pollster for the Wall Street Journal (to prevent criticism of being a mindless lefty) attacked the Newsweek and Rassutten polls that everyone seems to be basing their "Bush is ahead" gloating on, for polling to many Republicans. I forget Zogby's exact conclusion, but I think he had Bush ahead by about 3%.
The conclusion being, the race is still close. Kerry is not "dead in the water."

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:35 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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I question that electoral-vote website... how is it at all accurate if you don't trust state polls? Most of the polls posted are state polls (done in a particular state). I could bring up more sources showing Bush has a growing lead in states that were once up for grabs. And Zogby? Zogby... hahahahahahah.... they are the worse poll you could bring up... they may be the official pollster for the Wall Street Journal but like the L.A Times I heard they polled more democrats then republicans.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04249/373858.stm

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
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Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:38
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Tired of ads?

New Jersey is Barely Kerry!!!

My vote counts!

My vote counts!

My vote counts!

Sandman is offline Sandman
Prince
Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:39
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McCain is simply too old to make a good president. It sounds harsh. but it's not good for a country to have a physically ailing leader.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
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Mar 2000
time: 23:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:40
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Um...did you check the projected votes map on that site?

http://www.electoral-vote.com/fin/sep10p.html

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:42 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Um...did you check the projected votes map on that site?

http://www.electoral-vote.com/fin/sep10p.html


While the Swift boat flap turned the debate away from the ailing economy and the Iraq war, the political landscape shifted just enough in Missouri, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Nevada to nudge those states from the "tossup" category to "lean-Bush."

Three states moved from lean-Kerry to toss-up -- Minnesota, Pennsylvania and New Mexico.

Virginia and Louisiana shifted from lean-Bush to solid Bush, with Kerry virtually abandoning efforts to expand the playing field deep into the South. Arkansas and North Carolina, home of Kerry's running mate, John Edwards, remain marginally in play.

----

Those are updates..

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:44 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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But wait a damn minute.. California is barely Kerry? What the? That can't be right.. my vote actually is worth something?

Admiral is offline Admiral
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 00:57
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Virginia is apparently now a battleground state (which is nice. I always like to think that I can have some effect), and Kerry is now starting to campaign heavily there. The guy who runs the Electoral-Vote site himself admits that the projected votes regression lines is bogus until october, and in some states will be bogus until the election. I don't know where you can possibly argue that Wisconsin is leaning-Bush, as it have voted democratic since Reagan, and has been leaning democratic the entire summer. New Mexico, too, has been Kerry all summer, and also has a democratic voting history. Arkansas and NC will almost assuredly go for Bush, and if they don't, it will be because of a major major Bush scandal, leading to a Kerry landslide, which in my eyes would be rather unlikely.
However, I think that with the ream of material that Kerry has to attack Bush on, and with the fact that he is finally starting to take a stance on the war in Iraq, that Kerry can swing enough votes to win a slim victory. Also, despite Bush's claims that the economy is doing just nicely, the fact of the matter is that the economic situation of the country is in a rather bad way (and I refer again to the Krugman piece, http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/o.../10krugman.html), and that Pennsylvania and WV, where the economy is significant, could both easily vote for Kerry.
Finally, in defense of electoral-vote.com, there is really no partisan lean on the site. He takes every state poll, and averages state polls taken over the same time-period. While certain polls are bogus, like the one having a statistical tie in Ca, and Kerry ahead in Tennassee, taken as a whole, they present a fair picture of the political battleground.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 01:00
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Wake me up for polling data 2 weeks prior to Nov. 2nd.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 01:22
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quote:
As a side note, he has always impressed me more than GW.


Yeah, he was supposed to be the Bush kid that ran for President, but George beat him to a governorship, which meant he won reelection first, moving him up the line. Opposed to George, Jeb is much more articulate and moderate. Maybe that's partially due to becoming a Catholic and not thinking the end of the world is near as some loony Protestant sects seem to.

quote:
Wake me up for polling data 2 weeks prior to Nov. 2nd.


That early?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2004 01:24 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Um...did you check the projected votes map on that site?

http://www.electoral-vote.com/fin/sep10p.html


Wow, Bush picked up a lot of support in a single day.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
  Old Post 11-09-2004 01:25
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Got spare money?

This election will be close but the only way I see Kerry pulling ahead is if he stops dwelling on the past (his Vietnam record and Bush's past) and starts dealing with how he will make the future better then Bush will.

 
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