26-09-2004 21:33									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I would love to think that people would vote for people whose contributions they know, although haven't personally experienced due to not reading a particular forum/playing a particular game.

It just might spark enough interest to have someone actually visit that forum and see what is happening there as well! You just never know what will get someone's attention.

	26-09-2004 21:34									#242
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I watch look and read these these posts and well, I guess Ming has the Number one slot in this or maybe he doesnt (authority)

I myself agree with the views and sides the Mods are taking......


This kinda reminds me at work..and that being said...I "had" to attach this one

Keep up the debates for I fear they be a spinning wheel..looks grteat spinning away but when all said and done.. will end up just tired and no further along the path to success

Peace

Gramps

Attachment: meetings.jpg
This has been downloaded 75 time(s).

	26-09-2004 21:36									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Fair point. I would love to think that people would vote for people whose contributions they know, although haven't personally experienced due to not reading a particular forum/playing a particular game. I would also surely vote for people like Xin Yu, despite not playing Civ 2.

Xin Yu was a classic example of somebody who some of us thought was being ignored. I and others banded together to get him in the HOF. We all posted his contributions whenever we voted. It took more than one election, but we did it. Xin Yu very seldom posted in the OTF (just an occasional post when China came up), But by many of us constantly posting his contributions, he got the votes. The same can be done for ANY candidate. If you think somebody is deserving... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, promote them, line up the votes... don't argue that we need to ignore the wishes of the voters and give a small group the power to override them.

	26-09-2004 21:38									#244
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And that's what I'm arguing against. Why should a smaller group of people have better chances to get their candidate in? The HOF of fame is for the entire site... and everybody gets to vote... what can be more fairer that that.

Exactly! Democracy is an active sport. If you want the majority to vote for something then you must give them a reason. This HoF is for the ENTIRE community. That is a pretty wide range of forums and people. You can spend years here and never visit some forums. That doesn't belittle some peoples contributions; it just makes them obscure in some peoples' view. The key is exposure...which is most peoples' beef with OTFers. OTF gets a lot of exposure, but so what? Other forums could promote themselves here easily. I seem to remember the Stories Forum doing just that not to long ago.

	26-09-2004 21:41									#245
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll I guess Ming has the Number one slot in this or maybe he doesnt (authority)

I have no authority... I really am just a minion who does what the owners ask me to do. I do not set policy, I just enforce it.

However, I feel that I do have authority when it comes to the community. Not because I'm a staff member, but because I've been at Apolyton since the beginning, and posted on both the sites that were merged to create Apolyton. I'm a member of this community... and I've seen the history of the site as it happened. I lived it.
So yeah, I guess I feel I need to speak up and defend the OTF'ers... because I remember most of these guys before there was even an OTF... and they are valued members of the gaming community and Apolyton.

	26-09-2004 21:54									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I have no authority... I really am just a minion who does what the owners ask me to do. I do not set policy, I just enforce it. However, I feel that I do have authority when it comes to the community. Not because I'm a staff member, but because I've been at Apolyton since the beginning, and posted on both the sites that were merged to create Apolyton. I'm a member of this community... and I've seen the history of the site as it happened. I lived it. So yeah, I guess I feel I need to speak up and defend the OTF'ers... because I remember most of these guys before there was even an OTF... and they are valued members of the gaming community and Apolyton.

Ok..I guess in summary..any folks in the so called..."smaller communities " still have a chance to be voted in..although its hard it is still possible to climb to the top..

ok here is the ladder folks..




umm..sorry guys... the ladder you have been provided seems to be missing a few necessary rungs to climb

Ok

Lets just say that we all need to flood and spam...I mean Politic for the folks in our..smaller communities

Ok..we have our work cut out for now

LETS all get going and voye..vote..vote our favorite small community members in..ya hear me? VOTE!!!!!

Ok..lets rock on dudes

	26-09-2004 21:59									#247
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quote: And that's what I'm arguing against. Why should a smaller group of people have better chances to get their candidate in? The HOF of fame is for the entire site... and everybody gets to vote... what can be more fairer that that.

I should have said it better. Not better chances than larger groups, but better chances than they have now. Ideally, the chances should be about equal, or at least close to that.

And Ming, your being here since the very beggining is exactly why I trust you know the matter at hand better than any of us, including DarkCloud himself.

	26-09-2004 22:10									#248
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I should have said it better. Not better chances than larger groups, but better chances than they have now. Ideally, the chances should be about equal, or at least close to that.

And again... everything is equal right now. People vote for whoever they want. What I'm hearing is that some people don't want it to be equal... they want their small groups to have more power than the larger groups. And I just don't see that as being right.

Grandpa summed it up better than I can.

PROMOTE... VOTE... MAKE YOUR CASE. That's how it supposed to work. While some of the people mentioned have probably earned the right to be in, that's not how it works. Everybody has their own opinions, and the current systems respects that. It gives all voters across the site the chance to let their voice be heard. Maybe some small groups should start speaking a little louder

	26-09-2004 22:18									#249
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Grandpa summed it up better than I can. Thats why I so often PM him for advice to handle petty claims and who I should or should not ban.... This is additionally why I am making it my personal goal to get him in the HOF one way or another..PERIOD! Solver, Locutus maybe if you concentrated your efforts on this exceptionally gifted individual you would see just how easy with my backing a member of CTP can be elcted..just try it guys i will show what kind of authority i have

Ok Ming ixnay on the speakey in publix nay

My consultataion services are for free..


Peace

Gramps da humorous one Troll

	26-09-2004 22:21									#250
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Dream on

	26-09-2004 22:35									#251
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I still don't know how I was in the HoF for two years without hearing about it.

Or even why?

	26-09-2004 22:39									#252
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We don't know either.

	26-09-2004 22:44									#253
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I still don't know how I was in the HoF for two years without hearing about it. Or even why?

Because of your experience preparing for Hurricanes?

Oh wait that would be this year?

Maybe because your a wonderful person?

	26-09-2004 23:45									#255
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quote: WhoTF is Samson?

He was the one who managed to get the whole trade commodities figured out in Civ2, which is not as easy as it sounds.

Check out the Civ2 strategy forum to find out what he did, and why the civ2 folks are trying to vote him in.

I didn't vote for him because I want to see solo in, but I'll vote for him in the upcoming round.

	26-09-2004 23:50									#256
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I'm not gonna respond to every point as we're just rehashing the same points over and over again but:

quote: Originally posted by Ming And again... everything is equal right now.

There are different kinds of equality. In European politics, there's a European Commission where all countries are equally represented: there's one commissioner per country. In the European Parliament all countries are also represented equally: the number of seats depends on the population of the country. Germany gets more seats than Luxembourg. The same is true for American politics: Senate vs House. Those are both different kinds of equality.

The same can be applied to the HoF. Every individual has an equal vote, but various sections of the site are unequally represented. In my opinion, if the HoF is to be representative of the entire site, all sections of the site should be represented (not even equally, but they should all have their place), not just the big ones. One can agree or disagree with that, but that doesn't make it less equal.

Some communities may be smaller now, but that doesn't mean they never brought forth great members. Just because those members didn't migrate to the OT or Civ3 forums, doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the HoF.

	26-09-2004 23:52									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi He was the one who managed to get the whole trade commodities figured out in Civ2, which is not as easy as it sounds. Check out the Civ2 strategy forum to find out what he did, and why the civ2 folks are trying to vote him in. I didn't vote for him because I want to see solo in, but I'll vote for him in the upcoming round.

Ben..um..whom is THIS latest avatar?

	27-09-2004 00:41									#258
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Actually the US is a very good example to look at about what equal right means when it comes to voting. There are larger states and smaller states in the US. Should each state gets equal votes or should the votes be weighted by the population? Well you all see how the US is doing. The benefits and shortfalls for each voting method is also quite apparent.

	27-09-2004 00:43									#259
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Locutus makes an interesting real world comparison but the 'Poly Community is more like a city than an artificial conglomeration like the EU; or at least, that is what I think. In that vein, this discussion can be compared to city council elections--should the members be elected "At Large" by the entire community, or by precinct/ward. It is a 'city council'. To divide folk in any manner invites a balkanization that devolves the whole. And while I still hold to the hope that the giants of the games get more attention, chopping up the electorate makes little sense to me.

On another note, I bet these debates will have been more interesting than the upcoming Presidential Organized Mouthings.


Just vote!!

Monk

	27-09-2004 00:50									#260
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If you think somebody should be in... promote them.. stick with them from election to election until they do get in. That's what Civ II folks do, and it works!

* Snowflake makes a mental note about what to do before the next election.

	27-09-2004 01:00									#261
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Locutus makes an interesting real world comparison but the 'Poly Community is more like a city than an artificial conglomeration like the EU; or at least, that is what I think. In that vein, this discussion can be compared to city council elections--should the members be elected "At Large" by the entire community, or by precinct/ward. It is a 'city council'. To divide folk in any manner invites a balkanization that devolves the whole. And while I still hold to the hope that the giants of the games get more attention, chopping up the electorate makes little sense to me.

Disagree. The site is very clearly divided between groups and there is not much overlap between them. Yes, there are some Civ 2 players who play 3 also, or some GalCiv players who also like SMAC, but for the most part most people belong to one group of another.

	27-09-2004 01:10									#262
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quote: Disagree. The site is very clearly divided between groups and there is not much overlap between them. Yes, there are some Civ 2 players who play 3 also, or some GalCiv players who also like SMAC, but for the most part most people belong to one group of another.

Yep. Also, a few months ago, someone pointed out that a community can remain united at a few hundred members tops. Indeed, Apolyton can't. A few thousand people post actively, and inevitably some of the active posters in one areas are unknown to others, and so on. There are a few names known to just about everyone (staff members, mostly, and then not all), but other than that.... many Civ3 players won't know even the most prominent OTF'ers, the OTF'ers won't know SMACers, and so on.

	27-09-2004 01:13									#263
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I'm sure everyone has heard of me

	27-09-2004 01:15									#264
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Dream on .

	27-09-2004 01:20									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I'm sure everyone has heard of me

umm..your a Marshall on a militray base i believe..

Im sure of it afterall all I was a Military Policeperson

	27-09-2004 02:31									#266
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Locutus makes an interesting real world comparison but the 'Poly Community is more like a city than an artificial conglomeration like the EU

Actually, I think Apolyton is probably most like the US: everyone lives in their own state and remains in that state most of the time. Of course, some people commute between states, some move all over the place, but most stay in the same state most of the time. They may move maybe once or twice in a lifetime but not more often. And in this comparison, the OT is Florida: that's where a lot of senior citizens move after they retire

	27-09-2004 02:34									#267
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And the OT is being hit by hurricanes Ming and rah.

	27-09-2004 02:36									#268
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Well, them or the spammers and trolls, depending on your point of view

	27-09-2004 02:39									#269
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We do our part

	27-09-2004 02:42									#270
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The state comparison is rather good. Only we don't divide into democrat and republican forums, but that seems like a good idea .