28-09-2004 05:34									#31
	Got spare money?

Well I'll try the AOL first. Maybe the higher ups, after hearing this will recognize the situation impossible for the customer and do the right thing.

	28-09-2004 06:01									#32
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quote: Implying acceptance? That's criminal thinking. So if I start blackmailign someone, and they willingly pay me, it's not a crime? Damn.. I must try that one out.

Contract law is different from criminal law. In a contract if you continue to pay you are saying you still want it. So tell your mom to STOP PAYING!

	28-09-2004 06:03									#33
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That's weird. THe business refuses to close down their service, a service the customer can't even use, and they keep sending bills even though they've been contacted several times. And now, if the customer pays, it's his fault and the business has absolutely 0 responsibility over this policy? Wow. In here that won't fly. I wonder why it does in America. That's criminal, pure and simple.

	28-09-2004 06:11									#34
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Why is that criminal? You were an idiot for paying for something that you didn't think you owed! You should have stopped paying for it if you didn't want it. It's seems utterly silly to continue paying. It just invites the corporation to claim that by your actions you indicated you wanted it.

	28-09-2004 06:14									#35
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Right. The customer was an idiot, thus it justifies the action of the business to refuse simple thing as closing the service. Right. Invites the corporation to claim... don't you mean lie? Now why is that OK? Ok that corporation lies?

I really dont' get your point.

	28-09-2004 06:21									#36
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I think the terrorists should attack AOL.

	28-09-2004 06:22									#37
	Tired of ads?

You also realize that not all people are in the position to start scrambling. My mom for example makes crap money and has no savings at all. She can't afford any mistakes. AOL has said to her several times now, that THEY WILL NOT stop the service, period. Now, they send her bills, if she defies them and 'ok I won't pay', wait for couple of months, then what if the fockers come in and there's 99457089475% extra fee and interest now to the bill, and she hears 'well in here America this is totally legal'. She'd be totally ****ed. Now, is she willing to take that risk? No. She can't afford to **** up her credit. No, she can't take the services of a lawyer and find out this question either. She barely makes it every month with the costs of living. She doesn't want to take any risks, and you're telling me she's a ****ing idiot?

	28-09-2004 06:27									#38
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I didn't read everything on this thread so just letting you know.

From what I understood, your mom has AOL for work-related purposes. Her superiors should have been paying her monthly fees, not her.

She also can claim those payments as her work expenses for tax purposes.

If she has the full access to her account, she should be able to change billing information in there. Personally my opinion is that your and her energy is better used toward getting her superiors reimbursing her for those payments.

	28-09-2004 06:28									#39
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So wait, since your mom doesn't have money for a lawyer and can't do anything, she pays the bill. So how are you going to sue AOL to stop doing this?

A company can always deny you called in and asked to cancel. There is no proof you did. If you want proof, send a letter, saying so. Then refuse to pay. And then call the Better Business Bureau or something. Btw, did you read your contract that you signed?

If you can't do something like that, then fine, pay money to AOL for every month for the rest of your life.

	28-09-2004 06:29									#40
	Tired of ads?

My aunt had to start the process of sueing AOL because they kept double billing her and then refused to stop service when she wanted to get another service. She had to close the checking account and start another because they wouldn't fix the problem.

	28-09-2004 06:31									#41
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Imran is right. Your mother can write a letter explaining the situation in full and perhaps cc it to her superiors at work. Get that letter notarized so that way they cannot deny the fact that she sent them a letter.

	28-09-2004 06:32									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Barinthus, I know her superiors should have paid for it. They should have also paid 100% more salary, according to the law, and they should also have paid for the NECESSARY fix up of the house. She also paid for that. For the materials. THe house was coming down because it was such crappy built. My dad actually fixed it up, he's pro. He was disgusted by the work someone had done building the house. Had to tear up half the place. And pay for it. Pay also for the internet, that doesn't even work now. They also refuse to get her another laptop, and this laptop is from the .. I don't even know how old. Nothing works in it, CD-ROM is busted up, floppy drive is busted, some keys are busted, and they won't even pay for it to be fixed, though it needs to be thrown to the wall and get a new one. And loads of other stuff as well, the car broke down, a crappy one let me tell you that much, and they said 'the car and the house is part of the salary', which she found out wasn't, well it was, but the salary still should have been 100% better with those two things included, now she got another car AND fixed up the house for her own cost, because the alternative was life thtreatning house and life threatning car and no one was going to do anythinfg about it. I hate those mother****ers over there, the few people that are ripping her off. Next time I should pay them a visit the day I leave. I figure the cops won't get me if I drive straight to the airport and leave.

It's BS that's what it is, all of it is just huge load of crap and I'm honestly pretty angry about all this.

	28-09-2004 06:33									#43
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" Personally my opinion is that your and her energy is better used toward getting her superiors reimbursing her for those payments."

Those church managing mother****ers are not cooperating. I'm going to crush them.

	28-09-2004 06:33									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

"So wait, since your mom doesn't have money for a lawyer and can't do anything, she pays the bill. So how are you going to sue AOL to stop doing this?"

Because no one is suing anyone.

	28-09-2004 06:34									#45
	Full PM-box? Change here!

"If you can't do something like that, then fine, pay money to AOL for every month for the rest of your life."

And thus you justify corporate crime.

	28-09-2004 06:38									#46
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quote: Because no one is suing anyone.

Well if you don't refuse to pay and AOL stands tight and even if they are sanctioned still refuses, what are you going to do?

quote: you justify corporate crime.

What corporate crime? YOU'RE STILL PAYING!

	28-09-2004 06:41									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If it goes to a credit bureau/collection agency, she can contest it and win. Aol's billing cockups are notorious. How they've avoided an extremely damaging class action is beyond me. Sometimes it comes back on your credit rating though, and you have to fight it again

That isn't the point though. Yes, America needs stronger consumer protection mechanisms. The only real threat to companies is class action. Having a company acting outside good faith is hardly helpful to the economy and it has to be made unprofitable for them to do so.

	28-09-2004 06:42									#48
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In my experience, 90% of such problems against corporations can be solved by yelling at the Human Resources and threatening to stop payment! They'll respond to losing money.

	28-09-2004 06:46									#49
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"What corporate crime? YOU'RE STILL PAYING!"

Like I said, you justify this action by AOL. I didn't expect this one coming from anyones mouth.

	28-09-2004 06:47									#50
	Remove this text

quote: In my experience, 90% of such problems against corporations can be solved by yelling at the Human Resources and threatening to stop payment! They'll respond to losing money.

Very true. A lot of people are afraid of this confrontation. So the shady policies remain. And the meek get screwed.

	28-09-2004 06:54									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: you justify this action by AOL.

I ain't justifying anything... it's analogus to walking into a bar with horny guys without any pants on and drunk as Hell. It ain't right if they have their way with you, but you aren't exactly off the hook for putting yourself in that situation. To bring it back to this situation... put your pants on .

	28-09-2004 07:00									#52
	Put an end to popups!

" it's analogus to walking into a bar with horny guys without any pants on and drunk as Hell."

I find this analgoue false and highly insulting.
Further comments on this case not wanted from you, thanks.

	28-09-2004 07:02									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Then don't read any more from me .

	28-09-2004 07:08									#54
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

There's been class action lawsuits filed by the state of Illinois (I think) for the exact same reason; customers requesting to cancel their subscription and AOL not cancelling it. You can't be polite and ask in a sweet voice for them to cancel the subscription. You have to be a dick and threaten legal action and stop payment immediately. And don't just speak to the common representative, demand you speak to their superiors and get their names as well for any future legal use. I had a similar problem once with AOL and their 30 day trial. You cancel and they just keep charging you until you call up your credit card company and get it off and then call up AOL and let them have it.

	28-09-2004 07:14									#55
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So why is it possible that AOL keeps on doing these tricks? Why are they not facing a heavy penalty for this kind of action?

	28-09-2004 07:15									#56
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

ML: Do you know what happened in that case, a google search didn't help. It was still pending in the documents I found, ~1999. Pekka's Mom may be able to attach to this.

	28-09-2004 07:44									#57
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It's really not worth getting wrapped up in class action lawsuits because the people who got screwed aren't going to see the money anyway. All the money goes to the attorneys. How do you think Edwards made his money suing all those doctors (by the way doctors all around the country are mobilizing against Edwards)? Just get it cancelled and cut your losses. You aren't going to get that money back but make sure you don't pay anymore.

	28-09-2004 07:49									#58
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I searched bigclassaction and whatever it was it's no longer pending. There are a few others but none of them relate to Pekka's case.

It's unfortunate that the only way to really sting companies ends up paying lawyers obscene amounts of money.

	28-09-2004 07:50									#59
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Yep, it's better to settle on an individual basis. Lawyers are a bane to society.

	28-09-2004 07:54									#60
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Yep, it's better to settle on an individual basis. Lawyers are a bane to society

In a way; but this doesn't cause the companies to change their policies.