28-09-2004 02:14									#1
	AOL Declared War On SuperCitizen Put an end to popups!

AOL sucks, what else is new.

Situation: A person (my mom) has AOL internet services. It has monthly fee, even though she has not been able to connect to AOL for.. months. Then, after some time her laptop came crashing down as well and doesn't work now. Months and months. When I was up there beginning of the summer, the laptop wasn't working. Hell, AOL services must of been up for like a year or more without my mom being able to connect to it, and now it's even more impossible.

So, she calls the AOL guys and says, she would like to cancel the AOL thing for now because she can't use it anyway, and she does not want to pay te monthly bills for it. Actually she called their long time ago the first time. The problem is, that AOL was service was subscribed by another person, the person who was doing my moms job before her, and now that she got there, she has gotten the service and paid the bills. Now, she doesn't know this mans name, address or phone number or anything. All she know is, that she's got his laptop now for work, and AOL internet. So, the billing address is my moms home however.

So they refuse to cancel the service, that is to my mom and who pays for it. My mom asked if they would give the address or number of the person who subscribed ot it first, so she can call that person and say to cancel it. They refused to do that. They don't give any info on the clients. So, what happened is that AOL keeps on charging my mom for it, even though she don't want it anymore, and she can't even have it because she doesn't have a working computer for AGES nwo. But AOL insists my mom PAYS the bill. Because she receieves AOL service. Which she can't even use. They won't send the bills to the original subscriber somehow. THe bills go to my mom. She explained this. They refuse to a) stop the service and b)give the info on the person so she could have it cancelled or c)redirect these bills to that person and d)notify this person about this situation.

So it's a deadlock and my mom just keeps getting bills and because all the balls of the family was blessed to me, she pays them.

Now we all know this is BS. We all know, that AOL is being really bad and evil now and this can't be legal. I don't want thme to only stop sending my mom bills, I want them to refund my mom for making her pay for at least a year for services she can't have and services she don't even want. What can I do? Should I call them? I can make the phonecall, and let them have it, but instruct me please.

	28-09-2004 02:22									#2
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I want to knwo the measures I can take on her behalf. She agrees to the measures I take, and I take them on her behalf and with her blessing. I want to know everything I can do to these blood sucking bastards, cripple them and throw every stick into their machinery. I want refunds, for my mom, I want god damn reclamation for the racket they've been trying to do. This is criminal. They must pay.

	28-09-2004 02:23									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Can't she just not pay it?

	28-09-2004 02:25									#4
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Ask them why they've been sending bills to, and accepting payment from, an address other than the account owner of record's address. I'm no law-talking guy, but I have to think a certain amount of the solution lies in that little fact.

	28-09-2004 02:25									#5
	Put an end to popups!

Well, not that I know much about legal stuff. But wouldn't it seem reasonable that if you get some proof that she has tried to cancel the deal, she can just tell them to **** off and stick their bills up their....

	28-09-2004 02:29									#6
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Solomwi, The current account is my moms account, it has her name and everything. The difference is, she didn't open that service in the beginning. When she came there, they set it up for her and all the accounts, so she can have the logins etc e-mail with her name, naturally. She is also they payer, and her address is the billing address. But somehow she can't close the service now. And yes, she has to pay for the bills. Well according to AOL.

" But wouldn't it seem reasonable that if you get some proof that she has tried to cancel the deal, she can just tell them to **** off and stick their bills up their...."

Yes, but they refuse to do it. I would tell them to get ****ed if it was me. But now that's not enough. I want them to REFUND those bills she's been paying for the longest time, for service she can't have. She even told, that she can't even use the computer, and way before that she couldn't connect to the service so it wasn't working anyway for a long long time.

	28-09-2004 02:34									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

You see, I don't only want it to be closed down. Becuase this has been going on for such a long time, I already consider it criminal activity. They knwo perfectly well at AOL what the situation is, because my mom has explained it to them several times. I don't want to call to their technical support and lash out to some teenager making few bucks, I want this to go up and I want them to not only pay for their super service, I want some reclamation and show of good faith from them. This crap has been going on for too long.

	28-09-2004 02:35									#8
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Email the higherups. Inform them of the situation, and that you do not feel you need to make further payments, and possibly that you feel you deserve reimbursement for making payments for service you do not want, and have tried to cancel repeatedly.

	28-09-2004 02:41									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes. That I will do. I was thinking of calling them straight up though. Well maybe I will just e-mail them first, and then if there's no response, I will call them up. And it's a big deal too, because my mom is making such a lousy salary anyway, like 1600 a month when she should be making over double that, plus she pays the taxes of the salary she should be getting. I'm just pretty tired of seeing her getting screwed over like this all the time. She knows her rights and all that, but she's just too nice to take it up to the man but settles to her destiny. But I'm goign to take over few matters now and give her a christmas present, to settle the score with these few fockers.

So in a situation like this, and believe me the AOL KNOWS the situation and STILL has refused to do anything about it, so I just don't feel it's enough they 'ok we cancel it, sorry sir, it's been some kind of mix up'. They need to pay for their rotten deeds. I'm just asking what's the usual procedure in your country to do this.

IN our country we go to the local consumer official, and they're pretty good, they totally ***** slap anyone who is trying to screw over customers or even if they are vague in their advertisement on purpose, and everyone is afraid of them so they usually just submit right when they call them up and want to cooperate and refund and do what it takes ot make it disappear. But this is different case, so I was just wondering the procedures. Well I figure the first step is now to e-mail some higher ups. Does anyone know any higher ups in AOL, or do I just have to go to their website and wing it?

	28-09-2004 02:43									#10
	Suffering from ads?

For some reason I always imagined that america online was a US service only. Does AOL sell internet service all over the world?

	28-09-2004 02:46									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

No this is in the US. my mom lives in the US.

	28-09-2004 02:50									#12
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Pekka Solomwi, The current account is my moms account, it has her name and everything. The difference is, she didn't open that service in the beginning. When she came there, they set it up for her and all the accounts, so she can have the logins etc e-mail with her name, naturally. She is also they payer, and her address is the billing address. But somehow she can't close the service now. And yes, she has to pay for the bills. Well according to AOL.

That's what I'm saying, though. If the account-holder of record is your mother, they have no standing to refuse a request for termination simply because she's not the original account-holder. The fact that they recognize her name and address when it's time to send the bill means they need to also recognize it when she opts to alter the service. Last time I checked, there were no two year (or however long) contracts with AOL.

	28-09-2004 02:53									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

" If the account-holder of record is your mother, they have no standing to refuse a request for termination simply because she's not the original account-holder."

well.. YES!

It's totally BS and everyone knows it. I bet even they know it.

	28-09-2004 02:53									#14
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Well if they do not accept her cancellation, then likewise, any debt incurred is not hers?

	28-09-2004 02:56									#15
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Win one for the Gipper, Pekka!

	28-09-2004 02:59									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It only makes sense, no, PH? I'd start right there, Pekka, and definitely get an e-mail off bringing that to light to the higher-ups. They tend to see "Bad PR bought for a pittance" quicker than those answering the phones.

	28-09-2004 02:59									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's what I said to her, that if she can't cancel it, thne they can't hold her responsible for paying it. I mean what's that? That's like lifetime service you pay until you die, even though you don't want it, and even though you can't even use it. ANd right now without even a computer. That's pretty much the case. I knwo it's impossible, but that's what AOL is saying. And that's why I want them to really consider showing good faith and nto only give the money back she's been paying for all this time (she contacted them in the beginning, not just last week), but something extra to make her feel welcome. Not necessary money, a poster, just something, that would be in order and not too much to ask IMO. I'll e-mail those higher ups though, and I'll give them the details of what happened, the dates and all that and just ask what are we going to do with this. If they are unwilling to come up with any solution, I'll call them up. If they suggest ok we cancel it then damn it, well I just have to call them up and ask are they not going to do anything about all the bills she's being paying for all this time while they've been refusing to cancel it.

Oh and just to make it clear, her english is very fluent. That's definitely not the case.

PS. I've called them before myself too, as my mom explained this to me back in May when I was there. I called them up and said we need to cancel this service, however they refused to do that because they needed my mom to call there, so I told them she's tried it before and they refused so I'm calling on her behalf, to which they said 'well she needs to make the call, we can't continue any further, she has to be the one talking to us, you can't cancel it on anyones behalf'. This much I figured they would say anyway, and that's cool. But it showed the attitude, because it's deadlocked, they won't serve her either. Basically they say we should shut up and pay the bills.

	28-09-2004 03:12									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

One thing to keep in mind: you're likely not going to see any of that money already paid, much less a little extra. Ask for it, but don't get your heart set on getting it. Once they have it in hand, it's tough to get back.

	28-09-2004 03:12									#19
	Got spare money?

if its illegal. Sue them.

	28-09-2004 03:16									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Solomwi, well my mom's money of course. I'm not trying to get anything for myself naturally. But if I find this to be illegal, which might be the case, they better pay up the moeny she's been giving to them. THere's just no way I'll give up before that happens. I'm a stubborn young man, I'll give butt massage to drunk men just to get the plane ticket money and go there and prove my point. I'll fight it for 10 years just to make my point, that's not the question.

	28-09-2004 03:19									#21
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Good luck with it, and if you do get it, would it be worth a couple bills my way to keep that butt massages to drunk men line out of my sig?

	28-09-2004 03:27									#22
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Hey you do what you have to do. Just like I do what I have to do.. to get this thing done.

	28-09-2004 03:52									#23
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I canceled my AOL account last month, after having had mine for seven years.

	28-09-2004 04:11									#24
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Have your mom ask for a cancellation in a letter. Keep a copy of that letter. Then, stop paying.

	28-09-2004 04:22									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

.. but I want to fight...

	28-09-2004 04:48									#26
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Unfortunately it looks like your Mother has been voluntarily paying the bill each time? Im afraid that means she probably can't get any money back. It implies agreement. IF SHE DOESN'T PAY THE BILL HER SERVICE WILL BE CANCELLED.

If it's Autocharge to a Credit Card? Or even just paid with CC.

If that's the case dispute the last 3 charges or 2 charges on the card(monthly). If it's Amex she can dispute charges going back 6 months. Also instruct the card company not to authorize any future charges from AOL. If they can't do this you need a new card. After this file a greivance in small claims court, jurisdiction is tricky. If you have to hire a lawyer you'll never recoup costs. Unfortunatel, there are no class actions against AOL at the moment for this that I know of. I'm not sure why, but given your Mothers 'unique' circumstances she probably wouldn't qualify.

If she is paying by Debit Card or Check. Your out of luck, go straight to small claims if applicable. If debit card you'll probably need to switch your card, don't know if any banks will refuse all future charges to a card. Don't know about Direct Debit, besides the fact that it's a bad idea to pay this way unless you have to. (loans etc.) Due to lack of Recourse.

I'm not a lawyer but I was a billing manager, and dealt with this from the other side. We weren't quite this bad though.

	28-09-2004 04:58									#27
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Uhh ohh.. I don't understand why customer is in situation like this and there are no people who help in situations like these. Who protects the customers right? No one? Don't say law, there should be officials that are like hawks and on customer side and attack every business who screws customers like this.

SO, this is actually legal? How can this be legal? This can't be legal? Why should customer go all this trouble because AOL ****s up? I think they need to have my e-mail really bad and read it carefully. If this is the way it's going down, then I'm angry and will seek every support possible to slam AOL at every corner possible and **** with them every single chance I get. That is, if they don't want to cooperate with me and continue being criminals that somehow are not outlaws.

	28-09-2004 05:18									#28
	Put an end to popups!

America is business friendly haven't you heard.

She can file a complaint with the State Autorney Generals Office of Consumer protection. They will send an information request to the company. All the company has to do with first step is explain the situation. Consumer protection will then forward the letter to the customer. The customer then has to say they aren't satisfied and send another letter to the Attorney General OCP. The AGOCP will then decide who they feel is in the right, and send a semi-threatening letter of reccomendations to the company, if they feel the consumer has been wronged. Companies will usually do what the AGOCP recommends but they can write another letter to AGOCP explaining their position. Letter goes back to consumer they have to write an essay explaining their position. AGOCP decides who they feel is in the right. If they back the consumer they send an even more menacing letter to Company threatening legal action. We never went this far, so I don't know who pays what in the legal process. Good thing about this; most companies will rectify situation after first letter from AGOCP.

A) Points for your mother - she tried to cancel.
B) Point against she continued to voluntarily pay the bill implying acceptance.

Another option is the Better Business Bureau. They are private mediator supported by companies, usually local. Toothless but they do have a rating scale so companies will often rectify situation given letters.

I don't know why I didn't mention these two options previously. Sorry, given your situation these are your best bets.

	28-09-2004 05:24									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Implying acceptance? That's criminal thinking. So if I start blackmailign someone, and they willingly pay me, it's not a crime? Damn.. I must try that one out.

I'm angry now, the pig gear has kicked in. I will not rest, I will fight these people, the war has started and I'm ready to CHAAAAAAAAARGE UUAAAUAAAAUUUAUAUUAAUAAAA LET those who believe in me follow me and I WILL PROMISE YOU VICTORYYYY!!! If you have no love for me turn your back now and leave, no one will judge you and you can return to your homes, as the battle is about to begin and there will be no mercy for anyone, not you, me or the enemy and I will personally execute cowards who run from the battle field.. ... FOLLOW ME!!!! UAAUAUAUAUAUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

THis crap is LONG overdue. THey'll get theirs! HHa! Pissing off SuperCitizen...

	28-09-2004 05:32									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Good thing about this; most companies will rectify situation after first letter from AGOCP.

I'd recommend this be your opening salvo. Also if your Mother is old enough a Senior Citizens advocacy group might do all this for her.