01-10-2004 04:19									#1
	CFC vs. Poly - WW2 Strat thread Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This thread is for the Poly to to stratagize in. Others are more than welcome to look in and contribute, but please
if you are from CFC, please read no further.

We will be posting pictures and so forth that is tantamount to cheating if revealed to the other team, so please do not discuss this game outside the appropriate threads.

Thank you.

--GK

	01-10-2004 19:03									#2
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Here were some initial thoughts/questions for the Allies:

* I have three SWs that I can build... FP seems not worthwhile, but Intel Agency and Battlefield Med might be good. Build now, or later as I get more units deployed from the West Coast?

* The scenario starts with most cities building MG Battalions... switch to primarily naval and air units for now? Is there some coordination to be done in terms of military production? For instance, what if I stick to air and sea units, China - offensive land, Commonwealth - defensive land, and Netherlands... uh, Paddy, you look screwed.

* The following resource trades make sense for me to offer on this turn:
To China: Fur, Spices
From China: Silks
To Netherlands: Iron, Furs, Gems

* I cannot tell if any of you have techs that I do not... obviously, we should all share whatever we currently have. In terms of research, I can choose between:
Airborne Warfare
Advanced Flight
Armored Tactics
Naval Tactics
Amphib Warfare

Thoughts? Which of us should research which? I can easily do a 4-turn pace, btw... if anyone CANNOT, please speak up.

* I do not readily see the Japanese fleet... obviously, we need to share such intel ASAP!!

* What is the best overarching strategy in this scenario? Gain control of the seas? Go right for Tokyo?

Those are my thoughts for the moment.

	01-10-2004 19:03									#3
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Here were GK's initial thoughts:

HI. I am out of town, and will be until monday or tuesday, w/o civ. Sorry. Advice - build lots of BB, Destroyers, some carriers, marines, and airplaines. Lots of airplains. Tanks are good on mainland areas, but cannot attack amphib. Max out tech and share everything, you can spair to everybody else - lux, etc. Airplains can kill ships, so make sure to scout with your fighters. Subs can pick their targets, so aim for the destroyers and transports. Destroyers can transport 1 unit, making them mini transports. One DS with a marine can cause havic, so be ware. Nobody starts with marines IIRC, so research that way. US gains a huge research advantage, so max it out. If you run a deficit, we can make it ups. The game generally is decided in the first 4 turns, depending on how badly Japan can hurt Hawaii, and how much of of the US air fleet remains to counter attack. Go after their carriers, and expect losses. If you have a city that is about to be sacked, sell off everything but culture. If you have a turn or two to prepare, make it a strong hold, sell off everything but barracks, culture, and defensive units and airports (to offer reinforcement IIRC) America should rush airports in hawaii and other defensible places to make unit transport that much easier. Most other cities need to rush production and gold improvements at first. That is all I can remember. Tell people what you are researching in the thread, so we can coordinate. We should open a thread in the strat forum to post screenshots for eachothers intel. US should try and get to manhatten project and build it with a GL, then nuke the hell out of japan if we are still playing.

	01-10-2004 19:04									#4
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Feel free to chime in!!

	01-10-2004 20:33									#5
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Not that this group needs it, but I'll be following this game, and offer my services as an advisor. Very interesting setup.

	02-10-2004 20:53									#6
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Research amphib warfare. Marines are a key in this game, and the sooner we get them, the better off we are. Japan starts off with some marine units, but I do not remember if they have the tech to make more right a way.

If you see a marine, do your best to kill it. All these little islands are easy to defend, except from marines and air. And the island is still yours unless he lands a marine, so those are our priority targets.

Japan lacks the long term ability to produce shields. That is how we kill him.

	02-10-2004 23:18									#7
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Ah, here's the thread!

I sugest having China beelining first for Light Tanks and next for Medium Tanks. (China will benifit the most from this techs)

US belining towards the Atomic Bomb, prefering air units on those two paths.

UK first researching Amp Tactics for Marines. Next research something useful for the US that's outside that beeline.

As for the Dutch, maybe they can afford Naval Tactics if played by a human? If not, maybe the cheapest tech?

And all allies granting each other the techs for free as they discover them. (US would highly benifit from the Small Wonder allowed by Naval Tactics)

Also, China & Dutch should probably mobilize on turn 1.

With three or four techs being researched at a time instead of just one, we should have a major tech advantage by turn 12.

Also remember the scoring rules. If your going to lose a city, starve it down first to reduce the points Japan gains. (100 points per citizen.) Conversely if your confident you can take an enemy city without bombarding it, don't. (Exception if your bombarding it down to size 1 so it will auto-raize)

Expensive units with little defense inadquently protected also call out to be attacked.

Last edited by joncnunn on 03-10-2004 at 23:58

	02-10-2004 23:47									#8
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I will be spending the first turn popping out workers, and then switching to military units.

Go through all your cities, and sell off anything you will not need. For example, San Fran probably doesn't need a barracks as it will be making ships only.... stuff like that.

	02-10-2004 23:52									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Air power and Marines are most important in this scenario. I forget how many Transports America starts with at the beginning, but I don't think it's very many. Those 3 should be priorities early on.

And try not to lose too many capital ships.

	03-10-2004 23:48									#10
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More on China, I agree initally that it should concentrate on defensive land units, but once they get light tanks, build those instead. (And when they get medium tanks, build those)

China could use a few more workers, but not too many, and be sure to only build them where they wouldn't waste a lot of shields.

US can build some land units on the front line cities via cash rushing.

	04-10-2004 18:07									#11
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn US can build some land units on the front line cities via cash rushing.

What do you mean by 'front line cities'?

Thanks for the tips, all!!

	04-10-2004 22:15									#12
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As in Manila, Davao, etc.

	05-10-2004 01:57									#13
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indeed - also some airports - gets the units out there from the states so so much faster

	05-10-2004 04:47									#14
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How important are the 'stepping stones' anyway?

I am a little confused, btw: What kind of victory are we going for? Do points matter?

Again, how do people feel about screenies and intensive strat discussion here, or should we keep to email?

	05-10-2004 05:08									#15
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Some of us would enjoy havin it here
Or at least being added to the e-mail list...

	05-10-2004 05:10									#16
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We could ask Markos for a private forum. Or we could take it to the ISDG forum, I don't think anyone there would mind. Screenshots would definitely help.

You need victory points in order to win the game taking and holding the VP points is best way to do this, though sinking a major enemy fleet or two will usually help out also.

	05-10-2004 05:56									#17
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Report:
-Researching Advanced Aviation in 4 turns.
-Slider set at 5:5:0
-I am planning on loosing Kuala Lumpur, as it is only defended by a 2hp Anzac Infantry, so I sold off everything but the temple. It is surrounded by infantry and at least one artillery.
-Kudat is almost taken as well, so I sold off a lot, I have a 1/4 defender, but is threatened by a 1/3 paratrooper with possible units in the destroyers off coast.
-Sent all my extras to all the other players, accepted, including my world map (I forget if anybody is missing anything or not).

Japanese Locations:
-There are 1 BB, 2CA, and 2 DD between Saigon and Puerto Princes, just off Kudat.
-Manokwa has a 3/4 marine in it and a 4/4 paratrooper due south on the road. Boela and other Dutch cities better be careful next turn. (Scouted with fighter)
-There are 1 infantry, 3 fighters, 1 bomber in the airport by Saigon, 1 flak SW of Saigon, and 1 BB and 2 CA due East.

Japanese Killed
-1 DD & 1 SS north of Sibu, using one BB and one DS.

	06-10-2004 04:10									#18
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Ok, as we as discussing tactics and strats here, you may like to look over the way one version of this game has been played out by the Supreme American Commander Pacific, Admiral Nimitz (played by Dialectic2003) and the Commonwealth Cheif of Armed Forces, General Paddy (played by Paddy the Scot).

We are writing the game up in the form of Dispatches between our two command posts.

I hope you get something out of Dispatches from the Pacific

	06-10-2004 18:09									#19
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mobilized. researching heavy tanks in 10. no way we will be here in 10, however.

sent 600 gold to T. No sense letting Japan capture it and rushing units in china will probably not pay big dividends, IMO. (If we want China to rush units, T can send the gold back.)

sent all resources and maps.

is rubber critical? headed workers toward unconnected rubber in the commonwealth. let the coolies dig

disbanded a city in front of a Japanese tank army, ugh.

killed a couple of units -- mg and vet infantry. are we writing battle reports somewhere?

Will try to back up into a strong point, but Japan may be able to kill us as we retreat.

	06-10-2004 18:23									#20
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Anyone know whether the US could land bombers on a chinese airfield?

	06-10-2004 23:11									#21
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Report battle results in the PBEM forum thread.

Rubber is pretty important... for the Japs NOT to have.

	07-10-2004 02:02									#22
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I don't think so, Russ.

	07-10-2004 03:47									#23
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Technically you could also win by domination, but even going for domination, you may well trigure VP first with no settler unit. (48% of population + 67% of land area.) With settlers, if China kicks Japan off the Asian main land, the allies win via domination as soon as China colonizes Russia and Outer Mongola. Without settlers, China just sits back and waits for the allied VPs to rack up enough points combined with whatever offenses the US and UK make.

quote: Originally posted by Trip We could ask Markos for a private forum. Or we could take it to the ISDG forum, I don't think anyone there would mind. Screenshots would definitely help. You need victory points in order to win the game taking and holding the VP points is best way to do this, though sinking a major enemy fleet or two will usually help out also.

	07-10-2004 03:52									#24
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As I recall, Rubber is needed for all Tank types, because I recall Japan in my game disconnecting me from my last source before I could reroad the previous one and losing the ability to build them for a couple of turns.

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Report battle results in the PBEM forum thread. Rubber is pretty important... for the Japs NOT to have.

	07-10-2004 03:54									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You as China have a much better chance surviving than the Dutch.

Good move to send the cash to safety, but I'd request the cash back and rush several defensive units next turn.

quote: Originally posted by jshelr mobilized. researching heavy tanks in 10. no way we will be here in 10, however.

	07-10-2004 05:43									#26
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China can survive and survive very well

I have seen them played to be quite an dominate force

go hard mate

	07-10-2004 16:54									#27
	December 1941 Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Royal Netherlands Armed Forces
Southern Command - South Eastern Asia

Popualtion 2,652,000
GNP 383 million
Mfg Goods 117 megatons

9 Infantry
1 Artillary
1 Transport
2 Submarines
3 Destroyers
2 Heavy Cruisers
4 Flak

15 settlements

Please note that Southern Command has mobilized the entire colonies for war

Palembang, CA De Ruyter departed and bombarded Jappa paratrooper 7 of Singapore inflicting 1hp damage

Palembang, CA Java departed and bombarded Jappa paratrooper 7 of Singapore inflicting 1hp damage

I have deliberatley kept these criusers out of the South China Seas - due to the massive Jappa air coverage in the area

Palembang construction to Destroyer - this construction has been prioritzed for immediate completion. This will allow me to get infantry units onto the Malay penninsula to support the besieged Commonwealth forces.

Ketapang, DD Kortenaer departed, with 55th (Reg) Infantry Regiment, and dropped them 8 of Singapore, then it headed to Palembang where it collected the 57th (Reg) Infantry Rgt for transportation to the Malayan Peninsula

Tenate, DD Van Nes departed, collected 63rd (Green) Infantry Rgt from Menado, and dropped them 4 of Davao (Jappa) on Coal Resource, then moved in and bombarded Davao inlicting no damage

Menado, DD Van Ghent departed, with 14th (Reg) Infantry Rgt, and dropped them 4 of Davao (Jappa) on Coal Resource, , then moved in and bombarded Davao inlicting 1hp damage to transporter

Sang, 15th (Reg) Infantry Rgt rushed to 2 of Kudat (Commonwealth), which is under attack from Jappa Paras. Unfortunately we are there but were unable to actually fight this turn.

Koepang, Tr Coalloader departed with 16th (Reg) Infantry Rgt and a flak unit, heading north east

SS CoffeeHouse has moved out into the South China Seas to assist the Commonwealth SS Storm in clearing the dreaded Jappa navy

SS Silent Death has also headed into the South China Sea

Commonwealth DD Tenedos crippled and still afloat in the South China Sea

Boela, Infantry production prioritzed for immediate completion.

Production queues changed from flak to infantry throughout the colonies, except for Waingapoe, which is now building a harbour.

Attachment: dec 1941 c v p.jpg
This has been downloaded 330 time(s).

	08-10-2004 03:04									#28
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In fact, for the allies to win, we really can't let China be wiped out.
So the first thing for China is to try to slow down followed by containing the Japanese advances. Then wait for opputunties to counter attack.

The other things that would probably signal our doom is if Japan overrun a large section of Australlia or if Japan succesfully took a US mainland city.

The Dutch are expendable. (Sorry Paddy, but historically, Japan overran every single one of the Dutch east indies possesions by mid 1942.) What's important here is that the Dutch make Japan pay as high a price as possible.

The thing that would signal Japan beeing doomed is if we have them contained on all fronts + Japan not being up by a few thousand VPs.

quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot China can survive and survive very well I have seen them played to be quite an dominate force go hard mate

	08-10-2004 05:03									#29
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn The Dutch are expendable. (Sorry Paddy, but historically, Japan overran every single one of the Dutch east indies possesions by mid 1942.) What's important here is that the Dutch make Japan pay as high a price as possible.

tis all good and I appreciate the mess of history

hoping by landing the units on Davao will put him off a bit

and by laying out Infantry instead of Flak to dig in

what do you think of moving the units onto the Malayan Penninsula?

and with us all concentrating so closely on our moves we should (using hindsight) come out stronger

	08-10-2004 09:19									#30
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Guys, correct me, but wasn't this set up so VPs were not the goal?

(Thanks for the help, jon!!)