04-10-2004 00:53									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Sorry, I misread, I thought he said don't just as opposed to [/i]just don't[/i]...it's amazing how much the transposition of two words can make

Ah, gotcha!

	04-10-2004 00:55									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker What's the "spoiling your ballot" thing?

Florida on purpose.

	04-10-2004 00:56									#93
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My god you people are screwed up.

Why hasn't God punished you, too with hurricanes?

	04-10-2004 01:15									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I think it is that they don't want it to be misconstrued for apathy, even if just in their own mind...

Not just in their own mind. Imagine 75% voter turn out with 20% spoling the ballots. Do you think that would have an impact different from 55% turnout with no spoiled ballots?

	04-10-2004 01:16									#95
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It would, and more so if there was a none of the above option to force a new election.

	04-10-2004 02:06									#96
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They're bringing in a "none of the above" option.

	04-10-2004 03:09									#97
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No they're not. A none of the above version is both counted and, if higher than those for any party, returns no officer or a re-election, depending on rules. Spoiling the ballot doesn't. Spoling the ballot is exactly like not voting at all, except it makes you feel better, and it means the counters have another ballot to throw away.

	04-10-2004 03:26									#98
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They do count spoilt ballots, and profusely so. Have you ever been to an election count?

"None of the above" is not necessarily re-open nominations, either.

	04-10-2004 03:29									#99
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They count spoiled ballots? How do they know how many are spoiled by accident and how many on purpose?

That doesn't change the fact they still count for nothing. Has there even been a none of the above won and it not reopened nominations? I thought if that happened in an election, at least the rules I've seen, it returns no officer, and that area goes unrepresented?

	04-10-2004 03:33									#100
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They are considering introducing a "none of the above" option in Parliamentary elections - but I think that will take the form of a "positive abstention" with no effect on the overall result.

In student politics candidates getting RONned is surprisingly common.

Spoiled ballots are counted and treble-checked and in tight races there will often be a dispute over what counts as a valid vote or not. They don't separate deliberately spoiled ballots from accidentally spoiled ones, though, no.

	04-10-2004 03:34									#101
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Not just in their own mind. Imagine 75% voter turn out with 20% spoling the ballots. Do you think that would have an impact different from 55% turnout with no spoiled ballots?

Yes, and I wish more people would do it. Some of these British elections have astonishingly low turnouts (<20% in some areas). If people do feel strongly it would be nice for them to be able to have some variety of N/A vote and they be counted.

	04-10-2004 04:37									#102
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Spoiling your ballot doesn't make any practical difference, but neither does voting in most safe constituencies.

Its symbolic. Watch a few episodes of 'The West Wing' and you'll soon be converted to the cause of sybolism in politics

	04-10-2004 08:06									#103
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A question: Should Labour retain it's majority, how likely is it that whoever replace Blair will have similar foreign policy views to Blair? Is it likely Blair's replacement would be someone anti-US and Pro-France/Germany?

	04-10-2004 08:43									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi A question: Should Labour retain it's majority, how likely is it that whoever replace Blair will have similar foreign policy views to Blair? Is it likely Blair's replacement would be someone anti-US and Pro-France/Germany?

Doesn't look like Blair is going anywhere quite yet...

	04-10-2004 09:55									#105
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Was britain really so bad in the eighties???

	04-10-2004 10:48									#106
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Depends on your point of view.

	04-10-2004 11:55									#107
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All I know about the subject is what I learned from Withnail & I.

	04-10-2004 13:24									#108
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To beleive anything that the pathological liar Tony(Britain is a young country) Blair says is foolish to an extreme degree.
This ship of fools has the politician at the helm that the awful people in it desearve. He has it all. Of course the real Tories are doomed. The soviets failed in creating the new man. How strange that all the while he(she, it) was being formed here!
Of course the tories are doomed. Witness their latest heap of horror - this attempt at proving how hip they are by various higher-up persons of them displaying their love of shite 'music'. At this rate they will be saying how much they love the Damien Hirsts and Tracy Emminnins (howeaver the tart's name is spelt). Court they the evil perverts in vain. Their foolishness is revolting. They are not Tories! To hell with them and everyone else in this land of infinite uglyness.

	04-10-2004 15:33									#109
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We love you too!

	04-10-2004 17:44									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi A question: Should Labour retain it's majority, how likely is it that whoever replace Blair will have similar foreign policy views to Blair? Is it likely Blair's replacement would be someone anti-US and Pro-France/Germany?

The British establishment doesn't do anti-Americanism. Whitehall loves/needs access to American intelligence too much. We wont be having an anti-American PM for quite some time.

As for being pro-France/Germany, Blair and Heath are the only two really pro-European Prime Ministers we've had in the post-war period. Its hard to see someone more pro-European than Blair getting elected.

quote: Doesn't look like Blair is going anywhere quite yet...

Don't you believe it. Despite his announcemnt to serve a full term, he'll be gone in three years (well, maybe that's not SOON, but it's SOONER than he says). The electorate can't stomach three terms of anyone - even Thatcher didn't last that long.

	04-10-2004 20:23									#111
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I've often thought it would be interesting to have an abstain box. This would allow you to make a protest rather than not voting or spoiling. If you don't vote it's likely to be assumed that you can't be bothered rather than you don't agree with any of the candidates.

PR would solve this but i'm not sure the turnout in Scotland has been any higher than under first past the post.