08-10-2004 19:53									#1
	RE: Philosophy first Enter the AD-FREE zone

I was reading on another forum that you can get a free tech if you are the first civ to complete Philosophy. Is this true?

I usually am pushing to get the Great Library, so Philosophy is not a priority.

	08-10-2004 20:10									#2
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It is true of C3C, but not earlier releases.

	08-10-2004 20:11									#3
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Yes, I often set Philosophy as an immediate scientific goal. It can be boom or bust. If you try to get it, but don't get there first, you could really lose out if you should have been researching a military oriented tech.

However, you can come out smelling like a rose if you get their first! A free tech at that point in the game can give you a competitive advantage. My experience is that the higher difficulity levels make it close to impossible to reach this tech first. Maybe others have had other experiences.

	08-10-2004 22:22									#4
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I do it all the time now. at the difficulty I usually play at, I almost always get it.

The main risk in doing so is not researching military techs. So it makes early war a no-no. And if someone attacks, you are in bad shape. I usually end up trading writing and philosophy for war techs to alleviate this problem.

	09-10-2004 18:03									#5
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It's extremely disappointing when I don't get it, although I always try. It'd be nice if there was some sort of pop-up announcing its discovery somewhere far off in the unexplored blackness, so I could switch gears.
Nice, it would be, but I always ask for too much.

	09-10-2004 18:11									#6
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IIRC, Civ2 had something like that.

	09-10-2004 18:33									#7
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"Travellers tell you, Babylonians have discovered the art of Writing"

Something like that.

	09-10-2004 20:04									#8
	Re: RE: Philosophy first Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Remulak I usually am pushing to get the Great Library, so Philosophy is not a priority.

Philosophy costs less than Literature, so you actually get to Literature faster by researching Philosophy first (assuming, of course, that you're the first to get it).

Similarly with Map Making, by the way.

	09-10-2004 22:40									#9
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BTW, when you do get to Philo first, you can swith to F4 after receiving the first tech, trade witht the AIs, and then get a super-advanced second tech.

Some consider this an exploit; I consider it good play.

	10-10-2004 16:01									#10
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I have found that there is risk in relying on getting Philosophy, so I no longer persue it, I instead go for literature and have found that trading that intelligently will help me make all the gains I may have achieved with Philosophy and it is almost definite that literature can be achieved first because AI's will not prioritise it. This is at Emperor/Demigod level.

	10-10-2004 20:54									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus BTW, when you do get to Philo first, you can swith to F4 after receiving the first tech, trade witht the AIs, and then get a super-advanced second tech. Some consider this an exploit; I consider it good play.

I never thought to try this. You seem to know all the tricks, Theseus. I'm going to give that a try next time. Thanks.

Sue me for exploiting...I don't care

	12-10-2004 03:47									#12
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The more expensive tech you can have access to while still discovering Philosphacy first, the better.

Best possible that I'm aware of is Monarchy, requiring you to have Polythesism before finishing.

The Republic [requiring Code of Laws] & Construction [Math] are close seconds, next Currency, then Map Making [Writing]/ Literature [Writing].

Note that Monarchy can be a good thing to get for free even if your not planning on switching to it. (Hanging Gardens wonder is cheap enough to have a good shot at building if you can finish it before a wonder cascade.)

Last edited by joncnunn on 14-10-2004 at 03:56

	12-10-2004 03:50									#13
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The one flaw in that, jon, is that if I can get Republic with it, I'll never research Monarchy.

	12-10-2004 10:58									#14
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And actually jon, currency costs more than map makin and literature.

	15-10-2004 19:04									#15
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Thanks for the answers. I just started a new game and got Philosophy first. Not only did I get a free tech (Literature) but I also got a SGL, so I got the Great Library the next turn.

	15-10-2004 19:31									#16
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Wow! The best case scenario. Good show!

You have no excuse, you should be able to win this game handily now!

	16-10-2004 02:07									#17
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Actually, the best case scenerio is reseraching Philosphacy first getting a SGL + on the free tech getting another SGL!

	16-10-2004 02:09									#18
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I'd have burned the SGL on Pyramids if it wasn't built yet instead of Great Libary.
Pyramids is very difficult to build as a human without a SGL.

Being the first to Philosphacy and Literature by defination means that the Great Libary is going to be less benifital to you than normal.

	16-10-2004 02:21									#19
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Can you have more than one SGL at a time?

	16-10-2004 02:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin Can you have more than one SGL at a time?

It's never happened to me, but I have heard that you can. Not for MGL's though.

	16-10-2004 02:31									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin Can you have more than one SGL at a time?

Yes. I've had three at once.

	16-10-2004 02:31									#22
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Actually, the best case scenerio is reseraching Philosphacy first getting a SGL + on the free tech getting another SGL!

Can't happen. SGLs are only from techs you discover yourself.

	17-10-2004 01:25									#23
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The free tech granted from phiosphacy & the ones granted by Theory of Evolution are counted as being discovered by yourself.

	17-10-2004 03:35									#24
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3 SGLs at once?! Why? Did you not have any Wonders to get?

	17-10-2004 08:28									#25
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn The free tech granted from phiosphacy & the ones granted by Theory of Evolution are counted as being discovered by yourself.

Are you sure? I've played countless games recently where I'm trying to get the fastest 20k win possible, with SGLs as a primary part of my strategy and never seen one from either of these two 'free tech generators'. I know for certain hut techs can't spawn SGLs.

	17-10-2004 08:31									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt 3 SGLs at once?! Why? Did you not have any Wonders to get?

Yes and no. See the above post for a bit of background. I had 8 SGLs in my best game thus far, and no 'high culture' wonders to build, with Newton's and Maegellan's on the horizon. Once I got the third SGL I believe I 'wasted' one on STAW or Leo's or some other piddly old expensive wonder.

	17-10-2004 23:09									#27
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I've seen a post earlier where someone states they got an SGL not on Philosphacy, but on the tech they reserached for free with it.

Goody huts never grant the tech currently being reserached, so your not going to get an SGL and also if your unlucky to be granted Philosphacy with it your not going to get a free tech.

Odds of a given tech spawning an SGL if Scientific are 5%.

For testing and verifiying, it's best to turn off keep current RNG seed.

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 Are you sure? I've played countless games recently where I'm trying to get the fastest 20k win possible, with SGLs as a primary part of my strategy and never seen one from either of these two 'free tech generators'. I know for certain hut techs can't spawn SGLs.

	18-10-2004 13:37									#28
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Is there a way to choose the free tech you get from discovering philosophy first in multiplayer?

Most of the time I end up with map making, or even sometimes with iron working if I couldn't trade it in exchange of writing before...

I'd much rather be able to get litterature or even construction, which is sometimes possible at that point.

	18-10-2004 15:28									#29
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If you press shift and select a tech other than the one you are researching you create a custom tech queue. The free tech that you get will be the tech next in the queue after Philosophy..

	18-10-2004 17:05									#30
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 Are you sure? I've played countless games recently where I'm trying to get the fastest 20k win possible, with SGLs as a primary part of my strategy and never seen one from either of these two 'free tech generators'. I know for certain hut techs can't spawn SGLs.

Yes, it is possible. I've already had it 2-3 times. From either philo or the free tech (not sure which one), but I never had 2 at the same time.
If I play a civ with alphabet at start, I beeline to philo and choose Litt. as next tech. If the SGL shows up, its a free Great Library.