09-10-2004 04:46									#1
	2142: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders Full PM-box? Change here!

Just getting prepared

GGLIE

	10-10-2004 11:10									#2
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Although 2141 hasn't yet been sent on, it's prolly time to start planning 2142's orders.

These are my suggestions

We'll open the turn to get Industrial Base and Industrial Automation

Builds

• Sparta Command: 13/20ths of a Crypteia (Infantry Probe Unit) - perhaps rush this - 7 minerals
  
• Santiago Citadel: Commissions an Impact Infantryman, starts on a Scout Patrol
  
• Sector CraterWest: 3/10ths of a Scout Patrol
  
• Sector CraterSouth: 4/10ths of a Scout Patrol
  
• Fort Buster: 20.30 of a probe team - consider rushing for 5 minerals
  
• Olympus Academy: Commissions probe team, starts on a Crawler
  
• Vladivostok: 4/30ths of a Transport foil
  
• Gythium Harbour: Commissions Scout patrol, starts on Navy seals training program
  
• Minas Tirith: Founded this turn - starts, and rushes, a Former

Attachment: tomcats.jpg
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Last edited by Googlie on 12-10-2004 at 23:18

	10-10-2004 21:17									#3
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Don't forget to change that FB worker MY 2142!

Your 2142 plans look good.
A couple minor questions:

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Tomcat-1: downriver NE for 1 tile and commences a farm on the rainy river crater tile there, to supply Rio Grande base

What tile do you mean? (NE is into the fungus. ) Do you mean the flat & rainy?

Related, where again was the Rio Grande base to be founded: (53.11) or (54.12)? I don't know what's the most recent plan as there's been some new plans regarding (not) building a laser foil, hurrying a probe defence etc.

quote: Tomcat-2: moves to 58:20 and commences farming the 7 rainy tiles between Gythium Harbour and Sparta Command

Do you intend to farm all the rainy tiles, or only the rolling&rainy ones? While unlike KK I regularly farm rolling&rainy tiles, flat&rainy is another matter to me. Looks like we'll need to have a big terraforming discussion as many contrary proposals have been made.

	10-10-2004 21:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Don't forget to change that FB worker MY 2142!

Ah, yes. I'll edit the above post so that when I refer to it it's there

quote: What tile do you mean? (NE is into the fungus. ) Do you mean the flat & rainy?

That's an OOPS - I meant NW 1 turn

quote: Related, where again was the Rio Grande base to be founded: (53.11) or (54.12)? I don't know what's the most recent plan as there's been some new plans regarding (not) building a laser foil, hurrying a probe defence etc.

Concensus seemed to coalesce (latest round) around where Tomcat-1 is right now (ie, just 1 tile north of where the pod and scout currently are)

quote: Do you intend to farm all the rainy tiles, or only the rolling&rainy ones? While unlike KK I regularly farm rolling&rainy tiles, flat&rainy is another matter to me.

To be honest I didn't differentiate when I counted the 7 or so tiles. Loyts of time to hash this one out if only 1 former is going to be working them for the time being

quote: Looks like we'll need to have a big terraforming discussion as many contrary proposals have been made.

Absolutely (and maybe we'll produce a Terraforming Officer out of it

	10-10-2004 22:06									#5
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Thanks for the reply.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie To be honest I didn't differentiate when I counted the 7 or so tiles. Loyts of time to hash this one out if only 1 former is going to be working them for the time being

Indeed true for the squares between SC2/GH and SC1. Though for Tomcat-1 we'll need to know next year: send it one tile NW to the flat&rainy tile, or two tiles SE to the rolling&rainy tile for example.

	10-10-2004 22:27									#6
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quote: Do you intend to farm all the rainy tiles, or only the rolling&rainy ones? While unlike KK I regularly farm rolling&rainy tiles, flat&rainy is another matter to me. Looks like we'll need to have a big terraforming discussion as many contrary proposals have been made.

The general rule I use is I only farm rolling/rainy tiles. 3-0-0 tiles aren't very useful, but 3-1-0 tiles are very nice indeed. Thus, I'd say, to compromise with KK, we should only farm rolling/rainy tiles, and then devote our formers to foresting.

Edit: I agree with most of the builds you have listed there, but I feel that we need a few more cities producing crawlers. How about we have Fort Buster build a crawler after it's done with its current probe team? The crawler can work that mineral bonus. And then maybe get Sparta Command producing some crawlers too? True, they'll have to work measly 1 min tiles for the short term, but even that small boost makes a difference. Or, we could have it harvest a 2 nut tile, if we can figure out a way to deal with the drones. In fact, if we switched to PS right now, we could get a bunch of crawlers working 2 nut tiles in almost every city and have an almost pseudo-popboom.

Army and Navy unit order look good, from what I can tell.

	10-10-2004 22:42									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter In fact, if we switched to PS right now, we could get a bunch of crawlers working 2 nut tiles in almost every city and have an almost pseudo-popboom.

Unfortunately we need Doc Loyalty to switch to POLICE (and yang isn't talking to us right now, let alone selling us a tech that gives an SP he's building)

So I think our Ogres and scouts are a must, especially if we want to free up the rovers and Impact Infantryman for the Uni invasion

(Maniac has gotten me convinced of the need to get our drone-quenching garrisons in place even before my essential infantry probe units)

SAfter that there'll be time for a concentrated crawler production run (but I saw Olympus SAcademy as being a crawler factory - after the 2 mines are completed (and Ecol Eng) it'll be getting almost 20 mins per turn. That's 2 crawlers every 3 turns

	10-10-2004 22:45									#8
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Now for the terraforming orders...

[quote]Tomcat-1: downriver NE for 1 tile and commences a farm on the rainy river crater tile there, to supply Rio Grande base

Tomcat-2: moves to 58:20 and commences farming the 7 rainy tiles between Gythium Harbour and Sparta Command

Tomcat-3: continues with the roadbuilding between Cratersouth, Citadel and Harbour

Tomcats-4 & 5 roadbuilding the rocky tiles NE and NW of Olympus Academy, afterwards to tag team for fast mine building on both sites prepping for crawler use

Tomcat-6: NE 1 tile to complete the road to Vladivostok[/qoute]

Hmmm, as for Tomcat-1, I would rather have it move upriver 2 tiles and farm that rolling/rainy/river tile, giving the new base a 3-1-1 instead of a 3-0-1. That is, if we've decided to plant the Rio grande base where the former is right now, instead of at the mouth of the river. That tile that the former is on right now is rolling/rainy, is it not? It would be a shame then to have it covered up by the base. What if we plant the base at the mouth of the Rio Grande, rush an infantry probe team, and then start on another infantry probe team right away, working the 1-2-0 min sea tile, and after 3 more turns rush the second one. I think that would take care of any Morgan attempts at infiltration.

If we plant the base at the mouth of the river, we can farm that tile that the former is on right now for a 3-1-1 tile.

As for Tomcat-2: Yes, but only the rolling/rainy tiles.

I agree with the orders for all of the other formers.
And when Tomcat-3 finishes its road, it can tag-team with Tomcat-2 in building farms on the rolling/rainy tiles.

Last edited by Zeiter on 10-10-2004 at 22:51

	10-10-2004 22:48									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie SAfter that there'll be time for a concentrated crawler production run (but I saw Olympus SAcademy as being a crawler factory - after the 2 mines are completed (and Ecol Eng) it'll be getting almost 20 mins per turn. That's 2 crawlers every 3 turns

Ah, okay. Well then, maybe we could just have fort buster produce 1 crawler for that min tile, and then go back to building scouts or probes, and let Sparta Command continue building scouts, probes, and formers.

	11-10-2004 02:33									#10
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I'd rather see he scout first, then the crawler. I think that Maniac's right - after Minas Tirith and Rio Grande are founded we'll have to closely monitor drone activity, and the more base garrsions we have the better.

On a second note, if we are leaning towards SCC Hunter exploring the Morgan coastline for the next five to 10 turns, why don't we send SNC Pegasus, after she's dropped the AA off at GH, south through the Yang naval chokepoint to rendezvous with the SCC Invincible and also to pick up R-112 (in the event that Yang doesn't call us and ask us to remove it

(And if we have a spare probeteam unit that could go with Pegasus, then it might present an opportunity tio infiltrate the Gaians, Angels or PKs if we happen across one of their bases en route)

	11-10-2004 02:47									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Now for the terraforming orders... Hmmm, as for Tomcat-1, I would rather have it move upriver 2 tiles and farm that rolling/rainy/river tile, giving the new base a 3-1-1 instead of a 3-0-1. That is, if we've decided to plant the Rio grande base where the former is right now, instead of at the mouth of the river. That tile that the former is on right now is rolling/rainy, is it not?

Actually, no. It's rolling & moist, crater, river (1-1-1 right now, but developed would give 2 for a farm or 2 for a mine or 2 for a solar collector) It's exactly the same as Fort Buster is right now, giving 2-2-2 as a base

quote: What if we plant the base at the mouth of the Rio Grande, rush an infantry probe team, and then start on another infantry probe team right away, working the 1-2-0 min sea tile, and after 3 more turns rush the second one. I think that would take care of any Morgan attempts at infiltration.

I was proposing to send the probeteam that Fort buster is currently producing to be the psi defender for Rio Grande

quote: If we plant the base at the mouth of the river, we can farm that tile that the former is on right now for a 3-1-1 tile.

- Naw - just gives 2-1-1 (moist, not rainy)

quote: As for Tomcat-2: Yes, but only the rolling/rainy tiles.

Agreed

quote: I agree with the orders for all of the other formers. And when Tomcat-3 finishes its road, it can tag-team with Tomcat-2 in building farms on the rolling/rainy tiles.

Yup

	11-10-2004 17:33									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie On a second note, if we are leaning towards SCC Hunter exploring the Morgan coastline for the next five to 10 turns, why don't we send SNC Pegasus, after she's dropped the AA off at GH, south through the Yang naval chokepoint to rendezvous with the SCC Invincible and also to pick up R-112 (in the event that Yang doesn't call us and ask us to remove it

Does that mean you want to forget about popping those unity pods in the Buster Ocean with SNC Pegasus, and also forego a Morganite infiltration attempt for now?

	11-10-2004 18:11									#13
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LOL - not really

We've too small a navy. We need more ships

(If you're an old CivII player I feel just like the military advisor pleading for more forces to "go and boink some heads")

It's just that R-112 is essential to any Uni invasion plans and right now it's bumbling about the Hive sub-continent disturbing the goats and the chickens and we can't seem to provoke Yang into demanding its withdrawal

Maybe if we upgraded it to Impact he'd pay more attention, but it isn't really threatening his syntharmored units

(I had a brainwave last night, and thought "what if we agreed to join Yang in vendetta against the Gaians (but told the Gaians that we'd pull out and reset the Treaty immediately), pacted with yang, then broke pact - thereby automatically sending home any units in the erstwhile pactmate's territory.

So I tested it in a fresh 2141 run, but yang accepts our joining him in Vendetta, but then says "Thanks but no thanks, I'm coping OK on my own" to the pacting suggestion.

So that one was a non-starter (that tactic is forbidden by the rules as applies to the "demand withdrawal" from a Human player:

quote: Posted in the Rules Demanding withdrawal to a human player through the menus rather than by negotiation is prohibited

but does not apply to AI interactions)

	12-10-2004 23:09									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

As we'll have Ind Base when we open the next turn, why don't we have Rio Grande start - and rush if we can afford it - a synthfoil (it's the same price as an Invincible class vessel, 20 minerals) and that way we'll have syntharmor prototyped for eventual armoring of our (to be upgraded to impact) rovers

	13-10-2004 17:51									#15
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Perhaps it might be a good idea to leave synthmetal armour unhurried for now. Read this for why. (The beginning is stuff you probably know. To the end it might become more interesting.)

But if we would hurry it, how about a 1-2-2 land unit in Santiago Citadel? Because of the command center, it would be commando and could be immediately upgraded to elite. If we built a ship, it would only be hardened (does the +1 morale for prototypes also count for naval units?).

Last edited by Maniac on 13-10-2004 at 18:25

	14-10-2004 17:00									#16
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2142 turn just downloaded - opening now:

Gaian diplo wondow open, with the Angels commlink on the table ("Negotiating")

I'm tempted to stall for a turn to see if the Angels will contact us next turn (ie to see if the G's have indeed done a doubledeal with us both)

Founded Minas Tirith, and put a Former into production

(I'll have to close this post to read the 2142 orders)

Last edited by Googlie on 14-10-2004 at 17:09

	14-10-2004 17:13									#17
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Hmm - R-112 is boxed in by ZOC's

Call Yang and hope he asks us to remove iy? Ask for the Angels commlink while I'm at it? (or keep faith wwith the Gaians for 25 ec's - but maybe next turn?)

Attachment: boxedin.jpg
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	14-10-2004 17:20									#18
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Moved SNC Hermer and had the probeteams jump off then back on the ship, to get a bit more of the Uniland exposed.

Infiltration and techsteal next turn, all being well

Attachment: 2142-unimap.jpg
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	14-10-2004 17:44									#19
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If we'd steal a tech next turn, I assume Zakharov would declare Vendetta on us. But I can't remember, will that also automatically cause a declaration of war from Lal, or will we remain in peace with him?

	14-10-2004 17:58									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac If we'd steal a tech next turn, I assume Zakharov would declare Vendetta on us. But I can't remember, will that also automatically cause a declaration of war from Lal, or will we remain in peace with him?

Not sure that he will - in my simulator test he just gave us a stern lecture (but I might not have had the relative strengths of our two factions correct - I don't remember if I had us at "feeble" in the sim)

midturn sav attached, btw, with some decisions pending.

here's what I've done so far:

• R-112 boxed in, can’t move
  
• Hermes moved 3 tiles ENE
  offloaded 2 probeteams to explore, then they reboarded, Uni base co-ordinates obtained for infiltration/techsteal next turn
  
• Invincible moved West and south as per orders. Passed a 1-tile barren island, otherwise ocean
  
• Tomcat-1 moved 2 tiles upriver on Rio Grande, and commenced farming the rolling/rainy crater river tile
  
• Craterwest’s colony pod and scout moved onto tile vacated by Tomcat-1
  
• Tomcat-6 moved NE for final piece of the road network to Vladivostok
  
• Tomcat-2 moved into Tomcat-3’s tile (where a road is being connected) en rout to the rolling/rainy triangle - will assist on roadbuild en-route to speed up its construction by 1 turn
  
• Fort Buster – worker relocated. Probe team rushed (6 mins after worker relocation) for 15 ec’s
  
• Gythium Harbour – Scout commissioned – put a Crypteia there as a placeholder
  
• Minas Tirith founded. Former rushed for 18 ec’s
  
• Olympus Academy – crawler started
  
• Santiago Citadel – Impact Infantryman commissioned- starts training a Scout patrol.
  
• Moved infantryman to Sparta Command’s monolith for upgrade to Elite
  
• Sparta Command – rushed Crypteia (3 mins) for 8 ec’s
  
• Pegasus moves 1 x N drops off the AA, then SW x 2

	14-10-2004 18:01									#21
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I can't open the turn, but it all sounds good.
Btw, did the foundation of Minas Tirith cause any b-drones?

	14-10-2004 18:28									#22
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HM - good question. I don't think so (but of course a number of additional units came on-line. I'll check

...................... checking ...........................

When unmodified, we have 11 drones (out of a pop of 15) Minas Tirith came clean !!

Sector Cratersouth grows to 2 pops next turn, so I've moved Chiron Knights from Gythium Harbour to there for duty pending the commissioning of the Scout Patrol at Cratersouth. If we rush Cratersouth's scout (3 mins, or 8 ec's) Chiron Knights can then move on to Craterwest (grows to size 2 pop in 2 turns) next turn to perform the same duties there.

Fort Buster also grows to size 2 in 2 turns, so it may be prudent to also rush Craterwest's scout (4 mins, or 10 ec's) and that way Chiron Knights could go to FB instead of SC3

Rushing those scouts makes sense anyway, as it will let us get Crypteia in place in the next few turns.

(Although leading the Morgan faction in the Junta, I don't trust them !!! )

Attachment: mt founding.jpg
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	14-10-2004 18:40									#23
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additional moves since the first big flurry:

Moved Olympus Academy's probe team through SC2 en-route to probe defending Rio Grande when founded next turn

	14-10-2004 18:50									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie HM - good question. I don't think so (but of course a number of additional units came on-line. I'll check ...................... checking ........................... When unmodified, we have 11 drones (out of a pop of 15) Minas Tirith came clean !!

I'm working from memory here, so I could be wrong.

IIRC the three crater bases and Minas Tirith are all size 1, so normally they shouldn't have any drones.
VV, SC1 & OA had 1 drone IIRC, GH 2 and SC2 3. That makes 8. So if we now have 11 drones, did we not gain 3 b-drones somewhere?

	14-10-2004 19:23									#25
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We had 9 in 2140, just after we founded Vladivostok (I couldn't find the thread with the screenie, so have replicated it here)

I'll do an update screenie for 2142

Attachment: 2140 drones.jpg
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	14-10-2004 19:39									#26
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here's 2142:

Attachment: 2142-drones.jpg
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	14-10-2004 19:41									#27
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Cratersouth and Fort Buster both got drones between 2140 and 2142

	14-10-2004 21:58									#28
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Here's what I propose SCC Hunter's movement orders should be for this turn and the next 2 (prior to linking up in 2145 with SNC Pegasus to pop that target pod

Attachment: hunters route.jpg
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Last edited by Googlie on 14-10-2004 at 22:15

	15-10-2004 09:56									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, things don't always follow the plan:

Here's the Hunter after its moves:

Attachment: 2142-morganmap.jpg
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	15-10-2004 11:16									#30
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Additions to the 2142 move:

Contacted Lal, who asked for Ind Auto. refused, whereupon he offered a treaty, which we accepted.

Asked then for some of his techs, and he offered Ethical calulus in exchange for Ind Auto.

After dickering with the Gaians, they accepted a paymment of 50 ec's to allow us to trade ind Auto to the AI

Trade consumated

Then asked Lal for a loan and was offerred - and accepted - 89 ec's

Attachment: 2142 lalloan.jpg
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