 |
| |
|
|
Sava
|
 |
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:21
|
|
quote:
Intelligence and religious beliefs - statistics
The following is a review of several studies of IQ and religiosity, parts of this page are paraphrased and summarized by Jim Tims, from Burnham Beckwith's article, "The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith," Free Inquiry, Spring 1986.
STUDIES OF STUDENTS
1. Thomas Howells, 1927
Study of 461 students showed religiously conservative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability."
2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933
Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward… atheism."
3. Abraham Franzblau, 1934
Confirming Howells and Carlson, tested 354 Jewish children, aged 10-16. Found a negative correlation between religiosity and IQ as measured by the Terman intelligence test.
4. Thomas Symington, 1935
Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "There is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability… There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence…"
5. Vernon Jones, 1938
Tested 381 students, concluding "a slight tendency for intelligence and liberal attitudes to go together."
6. A. R. Gilliland, 1940
At variance with all other studies, found "little or no relationship between intelligence and attitude toward god."
7. Donald Gragg, 1942
Reported an inverse correlation between 100 ACE freshman test scores and Thurstone "reality of god" scores.
8. Brown and Love, 1951
At the University of Denver, tested 613 male and female students. The mean test scores of non-believers was 119 points, and for believers it was 100. The non-believers ranked in the 80th percentile, and believers in the 50th. Their findings "strongly corroborate those of Howells."
9. Michael Argyle, 1958
Concluded that "although intelligent children grasp religious concepts earlier, they are also the first to doubt the truth of religion, and intelligent students are much less likely to accept orthodox beliefs."
10. Jeffrey Hadden, 1963
Found no correlation between intelligence and grades. This was an anomalous finding, since GPA corresponds closely with intelligence. Other factors may have influenced the results at the University of Wisconsin.
11. Young, Dustin and Holtzman, 1966
Average religiosity decreased as GPA rose.
12. James Trent, 1967
Polled 1400 college seniors. Found little difference, but high-ability students in his sample group were over-represented.
13. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967
The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college.
14. Robert Wuthnow, 1978
Of 532 students, 37 percent of Christians, 58 percent of apostates, and 53 percent of non-religious scored above average on SATs.
15. Hastings and Hoge, 1967, 1974
Polled 200 college students and found no significant correlations.
16. Norman Poythress, 1975
Mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022).
17. Wiebe and Fleck, 1980
Studied 158 male and female Canadian university students. They reported "nonreligious S's tended to be strongly intelligent" and "more intelligent than religious S's."
Others :
Pratt (1937) among 3040 students at regional state college, taking denomenational affiliation as sign of religiocity, "found that non-affiliates recorded lower mean scores on the American council Examination than any students affiliated to any denomenational group."
Francis (1979)(using fequency of prayer and chruch attendence) 2272 school children between 9-11,"found no relationship between school assigned IQ's and religious behavior after controling for paternal social class."
Francis'('86 replication) findings replicated in second study among 6955 students.
STUDENT BODY COMPARISONS
1. Rose Goldsen, 1952
Percentage of students who believe in a divine god: Harvard 30; UCLA 32; Dartmouth 35; Yale 36; Cornell 42; Wayne 43; Weslyan 43; Michigan 45; Fisk 60; Texas 62; North Carolina 68.
2. National Review Study, 1970
Percentage of students who believe in a Spirit or Divine God: Reed 15; Brandeis 25; Sarah Lawrence 28; Williams 36; Stanford 41; Boston U. 41; Yale 42; Howard 47; Indiana 57; Davidson 59; S. Carolina 65; Marquette 77.
[Marquette is a religious school]
3. Caplovitz and Sherrow, 1977
Apostasy rates rose continuously from 5 percent in "low" ranked schools to 17 percent in "high" ranked schools.
4. Niemi, Ross, and Alexander, 1978
In elite schools, organized religion was judged important by only 26 percent of their students, compared with 44 percent of all students.
STUDIES OF VERY-HIGH IQ GROUPS
1. Terman, 1959
Studied group with IQ's over 140. Of men, 10 percent held strong religious belief, of women 18 percent. Sixty-two percent of men and 57 percent of women claimed "little religious inclination" while 28 percent of the men and 23 percent of the women claimed it was "not at all important."
2. Warren and Heist, 1960
Found no differences among National Merit Scholars. Results may have been effected by the fact that NM scholars are not selected on the basis of intelligence or grades alone, but also on "leadership" and such like.
3. Southern and Plant, 1968
Studied 42 male and 30 female members of Mensa. Mensa members were much less religious in belief than the typical American college alumnus or adult.
STUDIES Of SCIENTISTS
1. William S. Ament, 1927
C. C. Little, president of the University of Michigan, checked persons listed in Who's Who in America: "Unitarians, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Universalists, and Presbyterians [who are less religious] are… far more numerous in Who's Who than would be expected on the basis of the population which they form. Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics are distinctly less numerous."
Ament confirmed Little's conclusion. He noted that Unitarians, the least religious, were more than 40 times as numerous in Who's Who as in the U.S. population.
2. Lehman and Witty, 1931
Identified 1189 scientists found in both Who's Who (1927) and American Men of Science (1927). Only 25 percent of those listed in the latter and 50 percent of those in the former reported their religious denomination, despite the specific request to do so, under the heading of "religious denomination (if any)." Well over 90 percent of the general population claims religious affiliation. The figure of 25 percent suggests far less religiosity among scientists.
Unitarians were 81.4 times as numerous among eminent scientists as non-Unitarians.
3. Kelley and Fisk, 1951
Found a negative (-.39) correlation between the strength of religious values and research competence. [How these were measured is unknown.]
4. Ann Roe, 1953
Interviewed 64 "eminent scientists, nearly all members of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences or the American Philosophical Society. She reported that, while nearly all of them had religious parents and had attended Sunday school, 'now only three of these men are seriously active in church. A few others attend upon occasion, or even give some financial support to a church which they do not attend… All the others have long since dismissed religion as any guide to them, and the church plays no part in their lives… A few are militantly atheistic, but most are just not interested.'"
5. Francis Bello, 1954
Interviewed or questionnaired 107 nonindustrial scientists under the age of 40 judged by senior colleagues to be outstanding. Of the 87 responses, 45 percent claimed to be "agnostic or atheistic" and an additional 22 percent claimed no religious affiliation. For 20 most eminent, "the proportion who are now a-religious is considerably higher than in the entire survey group."
6. Jack Chambers, 1964
Questionnaired 740 US psychologists and chemists. He reported, "The highly creative men… significantly more often show either no preference for a particular religion or little or no interest in religion." Found that the most eminent psychologists showed 40 percent no preference, 16 percent for the most eminent chemists.
7. Vaughan, Smith, and Sjoberg, 1965
Polled 850 US physicists, zoologists, chemical engineers, and geologists listed in American Men of Science (1955) on church membership, and attendance patterns, and belief in afterlife. Of the 642 replies, 38.5 percent did not believe in an afterlife, whereas 31.8 percent did. Belief in immortality was less common among major university staff than among those employed by business, government, or minor universities. The Gallup poll taken about this time showed that two-thirds of the U.S. population believed in an afterlife, so scientists were far less religious than the typical adult.
Conclusion
The consensus here is clear: more intelligent people tend not to believe in religion. And this observation is given added force when you consider that the above studies span a broad range of time, subjects and methodologies, and yet arrive at the same conclusion.
Why does this correlation exist? The first answer that comes to mind is that religious beliefs tend to be more illogical or incoherent than secular beliefs, and intelligent people tend to recognize that more quickly. But this explanation will surely be rejected by religious people, who will seek other explanations and rationalizations.
According to Nature 394:313, a recent survey of members of the National Academy of Sciences showed that 72% are outright atheists, 21% are agnostic and only 7% admit to belief in a personal God.
According to the Skeptic magazine vol.6 #2 1998, in multiple studies, there is a negative correlation between theism and morality. By Franzblau's 1934 study, there's a negative correlation between religiousity and honesty. Ross 1950 shows atheists and agnostics are more likely to express their willingness to help the poor than the deeply religious. 1969 Hirschi and Stark found no correlation in lawbreaking by churchgoing children and non-churchgoing children.
This same Skeptic published the results of another study that compared professions and likelihood of believing in God. The general public was just over 90% likely to believe in God. Scientists in general were just under 40% likely. Mathematicians were just over 40% likely, biologists just under 30%, and physicists were barely over 20% likely to believe in God. |
link: http://www.objectivethought.com/atheism/iqstats.html
I found this quite interesting. It only reinforces my own personal opinions about religiousity, religionistas, and intelligence.
So in case you are too lazy to read. Smart people tend to not be religious. Dumb people tend to be religious.
Discuss. 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
These studies make sense, and they are shown to be true time and time again. I would not that even though there is a correlation, that doesn't mean a religious person can't also be intelligent. It just means that there is a strong tendency for the more intelligent to be less religious.
Hmm, Kuci, in my experience the commies these days tend not to be that far from average intelligence. Well, those that really advocate a true communism. I assume you are just referring to people that support social programs..well, you may be right there, but I think social programs are actually a good, progressive thing.
I will refrain from commenting on how questionable upholding libertarian beliefs is. It isn't the point of this thread. (If someone wants to discuss this, then they or I could open up a new thread).
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
My point being that academics especially tend to construct elaborate political philosophies. Not necessarily bad, but it often leads to over-thinking them. And a lot of it is just a sort of intellectual conceit.
I'm not saying it's questionable to do things, just that being more intelligent doesn't really make your religious or political ideas any better. |
I disagree here. It does make *your* ideas better if you are smarter. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the ideas are good ones if you don't take the time to really learn about the field these ideas involve.
Anyhow, as far is religion is concerned, my impression of why more intelligent people tend to discount it is because there is simply no evidence for it. The smarter you are, the less likely you will take things at face value (clearly this isn't the only factor involved in taking things at face value though).
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I find commies/socialists/anarchists tend to be above average in intelligence, libertarians also. I think that's because we're smart enough to see past the lies of the current system. |
In my experience, a lot of these types are not that far from average intelligence. They are merely rebelling and these political philosophies suit that rebelling.
Socailists and Libertarians probably have the edge in intelligence of the people devoted to them, just because those two philosophies aren't as obviously insane as the more extreme communism and anarchism ones are. Of course, as far as socialism is concerned, a lot of people that say they are socialist aren't socialist in the sense of government ownership of near-everything. It is a broader catagory than the other 3.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Anyhow, as far is religion is concerned, my impression of why more intelligent people tend to discount it is because there is simply no evidence for it. The smarter you are, the less likely you will take things at face value (clearly this isn't the only factor involved in taking things at face value though). |
Yes, and I'm an atheist, but the point is that smart people are often much better not so much at finding the right answer as defending the wrong answer well. |
There is a truth to that, but I'd say the smarter you are the better you are at finding the right answer (and there are other things involved in this).
Now, if you are stubborn and intelligence (and most people are a bit stubborn about defending their positions) then you certainly are better at defending the bad positions you take and rationalizing them too. I would say that outside the subjects where such people have stuck to their bad answers, they tend to be right a lot more than their less intelligent fellow citizens.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Yes, but in studies like this, IIRC, there's usually a high correlation between the two groups (because of the ways they measure intelligence). |
Well, it depends. Some subjects you have to be intelligent to get into the academia (like science), and in others this isn't as important.
So with some types of academia there is a very strong correlation between intelligence and being in the academia (as well as how far you progress). In others...not so much.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Uhm, cufk you! |
CUFK?
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Try typing F-U-C . . . as a word and see what happens. Cufk gets around the autocensor and still conveys the same meaning. In addition, because of the way the brain processes letters, cufk will often be initially read as the correctly spelled word. |
And yet...your ploy failed.
Victory is mine!
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Actually, the brain would detect it right were it spelled fcuk. |
Libertarian Spearman wins against the Red Tank of Communism!
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
it was really unintelligent to be an atheist in the 1920s
so therefore in general intelligent are more sure of themselves and don't want to beleive in a god
the bible says something about this (something like the foolishness of God s better than the wisdom of man)
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Albert Speer
|
|
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:21
|
|
gee if communists are so intelligent, why can't any of them understand macroeconomics?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Albert Speer
|
|
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:21
|
|
it should be noted that religious people tend to be poorer and therefore not exposed to as much education...
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:21.
Apolyton Time is 00:21. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-10-2004 01:31
|