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-SafaN-
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nice work!
Greetz
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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In the Embassy...quote:
Welcome back to the renovated embassy, Gentlemen of the Corporation. During your short absence we have redecorated and repainted a little and wired all rooms with bugs. We hope you like your new surroundings.
Now let's get to business. It seems a comment, made by Major Snoddasmannen after drinking too many fungal gins, has been misinterpreted. Namely Colonel Googlie received a Planetnet Message from Mr. Argenine indicating that Paramiria would have been captured by Federation forces. We can assure this is not the case. Instead Snoddasmannen's comment referred to the mass casualties the base in question suffered in slaying down the pacifist protests following the Hunter hostile takeover. Make no mistake though. If negotiations for compensation of your crime do not reach a satisfactory conclusion, we reserve ourselves the right to take action against Corporate assets.
For as Mr. Argenine indicates, Morgan didn't even try to open negotiations regarding the Hunter position or the Modo Doctrine: you simply immediately took hostile action. This while we were most willing to negotiate with the Corporation regarding a division of the ocean seperating our continents, and a reduction of the extent of the Modo Doctrine, should you have indicated a desire for another arrangement. The doctrine of no ships within a full eight squares of our bases is more meant against Gaian and Angel probes coming from the south in the future.
Therefore we believe we have the right to a compensation on the Hunter issue.
There is however another issue at stake. The Corporation not only took over control of the Hunter. You unilaterally threw ALL treaties, contracts and agreements out of the window, and ceased payments for our Ethical Calculus trade of a while ago. And this for the second time already. The previous time the Junta accedes it was partly justified. In fact we were planning to compensate you on our own initiative for the loss of the Defense Attorney you suffered during our infiltration mission.
But this time your action cannot be else interpreted than as an unprovoked hostile act. In this you have showed yourselves as an unreliable partner to make longterm deals with. That's why, before full peace negotiations start and a compensation for the Hunter incident is sought, the Junta would like to receive the outstanding payments for our tech trades, in one lump sum. It would be a sign of your credibility and show your commitment to a true peace process.
With the greetings of the Junta,
Colonel Maniac |
My calculations show we owe 48 ec. That's not too horrible for us. We might not be able to swing it in one turn if we still want to buy HEC for 100ec, though.
How should we read this? Does it mean they're dependent on our cash? Does it mean they want to invade soon? Or simply that they don't want us to cut them off again, and don't trust us to continue regular payments? Any other interpretations?
Should we suggest a pact, to increase income, and boost trust that we won't be invaded? Maybe we could do the lump sum if they agree to at least a short-term pact?
Also, I was always under the impression (before the Hunter incident) that they agreed to the 50 ec attorney fees.
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Mead
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I've been away for a couple days.
Let me think of our response before we respond.
I was not too eager to respomd to them (partly because they would feel that we were too eager to respond).
I think they need the income we are throwing their way. If I am not mistaken they are not mking too much money with their social settings and basic econ configuration. Addtionally, I think they have to make regular loan repayments to the Hive (they did take out a large loan recently, yes?)
All that being said let me respond (nicely) to them. I'll try to explore a reasonable settlement.
Mead
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Mead
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I posted this in the embassy:
quote:
[Mead Enters, Looks Around, and Hopes that for the Future, the host nation provides better security for diplomatic missions and embassies.]
[He thinks it best not to insult the Spartans and decides it would be better to not mention that he was surprised that the Spartans lacked the discipline to prevent the burning of the embassy. He'll need to remind the Spartans of their duty to protect diplomatic missions no matter how bad relations might become. Realizing that the Spartans may already know this and may already feel shamed, he'll need to wait until later to remind them of their diplomatic duties.]
[He puts a smile and greets the Spartan delegation, knowing it's his job to get back to profitable business.]
Greetings Spartans,
We are eager to renew profitable trade.
I understand that there are several outstanding issues that we need to take care of. These include:
Restarting trade between us.
Resolving the ownership change of the Hunter.
Ensuring that the mutual security of both the Federation and Corporation.
First, I need to answer Colonel Maniac's question as to why we didn't just disband the Hunter after we captured. Although it costs us support and drone control problems, we felt that destroying the Hunter would be wasteful and not be beneficial to either Sparta or Morgan. Plus, we thought it would be an insult to destroy such a fine ship. We thought that it would an insult that Sparta would have a hard time forviging.
Keeping the ship afloat offers benefits to both sides. It gives an early warning platform that allows both Sparta and Morgan to ensure they are safe.
I propose restarting the trade between our factions and we share screenshots of all ships that within 8 squares of each others bases.
I propose that until such time (when and if) control of the Hunter returns to Sparta that Morgan support the vessel (and deal with the related drone issues without complaint (okay without too much complaint). Because of the suspension of trade during the past difficulties I propose that we extend the length of our agreements by a length equal to the suspension of agreements so that we ensure Sparta receives the the amount we agreed to (i.e. we are ready to restart the cash flow).
As before I left for my winter holiday, I would be happy to dicuss not only a trade Treaty, but also a Pact.
Please let me know what you think.
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.
[Mead hopes that Sparta realizes that Morgan felt threatened by the Modo Doctraine, combined with the threat that Sparta would attack any ship within 8 spaces of Spartan bases. He hopes that Sparta realizes that although Morgan values peace and free trade, that Morgan, and its units, will respond in self-defense when threatened. He hopes that the mission will be profitable for both Sparta and Morgan.]
[Finished with the meeting, Mead wearily checks out the redecorated offices, wonders if the burnt oak smell will ever go away (although it does have kinda of a rustic feel to it) and wishes for the best.]
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Mead
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Mead
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I pm'd this to Kass:
quote:
quote:
Kassiopeia wrote on 12-01-2005 11:00:
Hello Mead,
***
Why did you not just ask us to withdraw our probe? There were several other courses for the Hunter to proceed and we would have been happy to oblige. The Junta feels you have acted whimsically and rashly on this decision, which makes it all the more condemnable. We would have probably responded to the mere threat of it being mindcontrolled, to be frank. She was a good ship.
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We felt that you were very clear in your indication that you would destroy the Gator Boat. We did not want to threaten you. We thought that by threatening the Hunter you would definetly have just cause to destroy the Gator Boat.
quote:
Oh, and just an offhand question - why didn't you just disband the Hunter if it's causing you drone problems? I find this part of your actions a bit puzzling.
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I am glad that the Hunter was not disbanded. That trully would have been using excessive force on our part. We did not wish to destroy your ship, merely we wanted to remove it as a threat. The ship is still intact. It still can be of use to you for the purpose you intended (floating early warning system).
We have not yet received the turn. Please let me know if we can restart the Treaty, commece payments, and screenshot sharing.
Mead
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I don't mind restarting trade (although I don't mind not restarting it either, because I think they need our cash more than we need their trade plus I realize that whatever we send them will be used against us very shortly).
I refuse to give them any lump sum payment. I want them to become (remain) dependent upon our payments. Giving them a lot of cash will hurt us, plus probably more likely lead to an earlier invasion.
Mead
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Mead
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PM exchange between Kass and myself:
quote:
quote:
Kassiopeia wrote on 17-01-2005 18:06:
I think we should continue our discussions in the reopened embassy; unless you see a compelling reason to carry on private correspondence?
Kass
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Although we can limit ourselves to the embassy if you wish, I hoped to use the PM's as a way of exploring our options without inflaming the passions of either the Morgan or Spartan populaces.
Plus, we seem to be much less 'formal' in the PM's.
Mead
PS
Even if you wish to limit our discussion to the embassy I don't mind receiving PM's.
PPS
Please note that, as in the past, if I am not responding to your posts in the embassy, it does not mean that i am not interested. It may just mean that I need a PM to wake me up. |
Mead
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paramir
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just wondering, do we know what the full modo doctrine is, i know no ships within 8 squares of a base is part of it, but is there more?
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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quote:
Good day to the Morganites.
"First, I need to answer Colonel Maniac's question as to why we didn't just disband the Hunter after we captured. Although it costs us support and drone control problems, we felt that destroying the Hunter would be wasteful and not be beneficial to either Sparta or Morgan. Plus, we thought it would be an insult to destroy such a fine ship. We thought that it would an insult that Sparta would have a hard time forviging."
This sentiment is appreciated. The fact that you have not destroyed our property, merely illegally seized it, doesn't do much to soften up the act, however.
"I propose that until such time (when and if) control of the Hunter returns to Sparta that Morgan support the vessel (and deal with the related drone issues without complaint (okay without too much complaint). Because of the suspension of trade during the past difficulties I propose that we extend the length of our agreements by a length equal to the suspension of agreements so that we ensure Sparta receives the the amount we agreed to (i.e. we are ready to restart the cash flow)."
We have received this same rhetoric from you over and over again, but you have yet to make a proposal to us that wouldn't make the Junta roll its collective eyes. Even suggesting that the control of the Hunter *might* be returned to Sparta some day in the future is rather callous. We must insist on the return of the Hunter to the Federation naval forces posthaste, or that suitable reparations are made in turn (mainly, energy credits).
Before we go as far as to continue actual trade relations (not that we don't mind the energy credits either), we seriously need to discuss this matter of recompensation, before anything formal can be achieved. The Junta feels that Morgan Industries has failed so far to show enough trustworthiness or integrity to warrant signing papers well before the very ink on them has dried.
I am also told by our chief of naval intelligence that surmising from your communications with us during these negotiations, it is clear that the Gator has indeed been within our de facto territory after the declaration of the Modo Doctrine. This transgression in itself would probably warrant a different set of negotiations for reparations and the like, but in the interest of good continued relations with the Corporation the Junta is willing to let it slide this once.
We are eagerly waiting for a proper suggestion from the Corporation as to what sort of recompensation the Corporation is willing to part ways with in the interest of ending this needless vendetta. The lack of trade is hurting us as much as it's hurting you, trust me. Even more so now when the Human Hive has decided to wage an aggressive vendetta against us, as your intel has probably let you already know.
Lt. Colonel Kassiopeia |
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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The Yodo Doctrine:
1. Pact.
2. Return Hunter.
3. Pay 48 ec lump sum. We could possibly pay interest on the 48 ec, due to the delay.
4. Renegotiate Modo Doctrine. (Apply equally for both factions, or redefine a mutual border, or "Neutral Zone," or not applicable to pact-mates, whatever.)
Can you make that work, Mead? (As long as the Board approves.)
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 20-01-2005 at 11:40
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-SafaN-
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Hmm,
the spartans need us really bad, or are they just trying to look like softies? I would start back paying the sums we agreed on immediately. Do we need the hunter anymore? I thought it was to be used in the workshop and that is done so, if they have really sentimental feelings for the ship we can give it back, or am I wrong.
I don't think the spartans wil accept a pact if we don't declare vendetta on the hive. It's also interesting the spartans have units in zak's bases. Is it a submission pact? Then soon sparta will declare an act on Zak as an act on themselfes. Great work with the probes and the techstealing then.
I'm wondering what the angels and gaians attitude will be. While the spartan-morgan vendetta has been posted on the forum, there is no information about those teams. I don't like the feeling.
My idea about the Yoda plan:
The paying of 48 ec has to happen immediately, without restrictions (thats the paying for the tech we got from them isn't it?)
Return of the hunter: okay by me
The modo doctrine will be renegioated, since we always have refused to recognise it
and the pact would be very interesting, but i doubt we will gain something from it.
Greetz all
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Mead
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Posted in the embassy:
quote:
Good, let's get to work.
I'll need to review the archives to see how much were were paying per year on the tech purchases. Please help me out here. I see no problem with restarting the cash flow.
As to the control of the Hunter we have no problem with returning it to a Spartan port and Spartan control. We will need coordinates of where to take it. Additionally, we have no problem with giving you screenshots from the Hunter.
As to the Modo Doctraine and Yodo Doctraine I understand:
That both or factions need breathing space to feel secure.
That Morgan requires more breathing space (because Sparta has the MCC) than Sparta.
That much like the means of monitoring that the US and former USSR had during the Cold War (both had satellites up watching the others nuclear military posture to prevent a surprise attack) we need to keep monitoring units to watch the territory and seas between us. This way neither side is unpleasantly surprised.
I propose we both be free to place ships in the seas between us. Transport ships (or IODs) carrying military units will not without prior notification and agreement be allowed within 8 spaces of each others territory.
All Morgan ships that are within 8 spaces of a Spartan base will send a screen shot to Sparta. All Spartan ships within 8 spaces of a Morgan base will send a screen shot to Morgan.
The definition of ships for this doctrain includes ships, foils, and IODs, place any other waterborne (if there are any) craft.
On a related note:
Since we want to make a lot of money, and we suspect that you want to make a lot of money too, we suggest that we enter into a Pact with the same profit sharing mechanism that we used in the past.
Please let me know what you think.
Sincerly,
Mead
[Mead hopes Sparta realizes that this is really a good deal for them. At the end of the day they get the Hunter back, renewed trade, and additional intell from any ships operating near their bases. He realizes that the only real loser in this whole sad epidode is Morgan. At the end of the day, it spent a lot of ECs to buy a ship it did not want, only to turn it back over to Sparta. Sparta is out nothing, Morgan is out the cost of buying the Hunter + temporary related support and drone problems.
Anyway, as always he hopes for the best.]
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paramir
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from the embassy
quote:
Your offer of a Treaty and 8 credits is officially denied as insufficient. Like stated before, nothing will be signed until the conditions of the Treaty or Pact are satisfactiroly agreed upon, and that is not the case for now. I hope we'll be able to make some progress soon, now that I have freer reign over protocol.
First order of business before anything else is your guarantee that you will cease your vendetta against our good ally, the University of Planet, including all covert operations. You must also accept and ratify the Modo Doctrine, if you are to have any hope of re-establishing trust with us. (It serves to note that transport through areas covered by the MDoc can be reconsidered should we sign a Pact.)
Now, we don't want cash-flow - we want a lump sum for all due tech trade payments, plus a 25% premium for lost revenue during the disputed years to compensate for the fact that you, I must stress, onesidedly threw out all of our mutual agreements we had worked so far to establish. Either Colonel Googlie or Maniac will work out the numbers later on, I hope, since they are beyond my departmental knowledge (they may even be classified for now to me). My own rough guesstimate is in the 100-300 EC range, but I can't say that number is official in any way. May be more, may be less.
Also, we must insist on the return of the Hunter the way we left it. You may sail it to Arcadia University and turn it over there. Keeping that in mind, we want a payment of 200 ec's for the opportunities we lost when the Hunter was mind controlled. At the time it was about to pop two Unity pods, which you have now popped. Probably you'll be still have a nice profit margin from whatever the pods provided. |
spartans arn't cooperating
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paramir
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quote:
Also, we must insist on the return of the Hunter the way we left it. You may sail it to Arcadia University and turn it over there. Keeping that in mind, we want a payment of 200 ec's for the opportunities we lost when the Hunter was mind controlled. At the time it was about to pop two Unity pods, which you have now popped. Probably you'll be still have a nice profit margin from whatever the pods provided. |
what did those pods provide?
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Mead
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quote:
Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Only 75 ec's so far, I think (not 100% sure). We owed 48 ec's total when we stopped payment. Some penalty for the delay is fine... 25% would be 12 ec's. Maybe we could forward the 75 ec's the pod gave us. That total is 135ec. I'm thinking that if we Pacted, I wouldn't mind paying that over two turns. For just a treaty, though, I don't trust their aggressive posturing and don't want to finance our own subjugation. |
I agree that we should not finance our own death.
I don't want to tell them no out right but giving them a lot of cash right now greatly lessens our security.
I could try to keep on talking with them to stall for time, but for now I would rather have them at vendetta with us and the Hive with little or no cash from us, than them at a temporary peace peace us and a lot of cash.
Mead
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Mead
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I posted this in th embassy:
quote:
Col Kass
It is good to hear from you and I am happy to be working with you to resolve our problems.
We have received your post and are considering it. I appreciate your pointing out that you lost out on potential profits from pod popping with the Hunter while it was within Morgan control. I did not realize that. To the extent the results of the pod popping exceeded (if it did) the cost of the probe action, Morgan may actually not be out as much money as I initially thought. I'll have to see how many pods were popped and what the result of the pod popping was.
We would like to get back to normalizing relationships with Sparta so that we can share trade and screenshots of ships in the nearby waters with each other.
Additionally, right now neither of us are benefiting from vendetta.
As always, I would like to restart payments on ECs for the tech purchases, return the Hunter to Spartan control, restart and share trade between us, and share screenshots amonst us.
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.
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I don't expect Sparta to agree. They seem to be too pushy. A couple of possibilities. One, is that they have already decided to kill us and ar looking for our help in doing so. I don't intend to help them. Two, is that they are rying to drive a hard bargain. If so, then I think they are losing more from not treatying with us and sharing in the commerce income + renewed tech payments than we are losing from restarting payments to them (particurly if we are to give them a lump sum).
I hope to stall, stall, stall.
Mead
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15-01-2005 18:51
. Now let´s see what they´re up to...
(?)
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