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arginine
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We might just say that we never did discuss infiltration. We can get revenge by infiltation in turn and just not talk about it.
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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From Googlie:quote:
The Junta has met and these are the results of our deliberations
While we understand the Corporation's annoyance at the loss of a valuable unit, we draw the Corporation's attention to our Spartan Battle Manual, ( which we believe has a Corporation counterpart - the Morgan Business Manual) page 130, which reads (our italics):
Probe teams cannot attack other units directly, but they can battle one another to the death. Probe Team combat is based on the morale of the combatants.
Probe Teams can attack other teams even in squares containing other units. Since Probe Teams have no "official" existence, destroying another faction's Probe Teams does not violate a treaty or pact.
Accordingly we offer the Corporation one of 2 alternatives:
* In the spirit of the Manual, continue as if nothing has happened
or
* The Sparta Federation will:
o offer the Corporation a 50 ec credit against treaty payment obligations, to recognize the loss of the Defense Attorney,
o guarantee not to initiate any hostile action for the ten year dyration of this current treaty,
o transfer the technologies of Social Psych and Doctrine: Loyalty to the Corporation
o in exchange for which the Corporation will deliver to the Federation as soon as possible the technology of Intellectual Integrity.
With either of those alternatives, The Federation will sympathetically consider a request - backed by suitable inducements - to support a vote for Morgan as Planetary Governor
(Of course, a third alternative - vendetta - is always an alternative open to the Corporation)
We look forward to learning of your choice in this matter
Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie |
Two techs for one, 50 ec, and "guarantee" of no hostile action... seems good enough to me, if we're interested in doing the I.I. thing. It sort of sounds like they've strong-armed us into I.I. by attacking our probe, though.
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Mead
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PM from Googlie
quote:
RE: Re: What's Happening
Mead:
quote:
Googlie
There is a lot of hurt on our side and not much in the way of trust.
The plan you offer may go a long way towards healing wounded feelings.
As I understand it, you offer to compensate 52 ECs for the lost probe (we would withold these funds from the current and future payments until the loss is made up), promise to take no action military or probe against or harmful to the Corporation until at least 2161, and support (vote for) Morgan in its run for Governorship.
If this is what you intend then please post it in the embassy.
Mead
The Junta has deliberated, and I have posted the reply in the Embassy thread. Not as sweeping as I'd have liked, but I think that option (2) goes a long way towards re-establishing a sort of status quo
A majority do see reparations, non-aggression and the Governorship vote as being inextricably linked to our getting Int Int, so I hope it's do-able (off the record, I could prolly get Ecol Eng added to the pot if that would make the deal attainable within the next 5 to 6 years, as you'd be researching a tech that we wanted (Int Int) and not necessarily one that you needed right away)
Googlie
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It's been a few hours since I logged on. I'll take a look at the threads and then may add my thoughts on the matter.
Mead
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Mead
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It looks like, by our action of witholding 27 EC and acknowleging that a credit of 23 remains, that we accepted option 2.
That's OK with me.
If the consensus is that we agree, then I will post an acceptance post in the embassy.
I will clarify that hostile action includes harmful probe actions.
Let me know.
Mead
PS
If we do agree to their offer to what will we change our research goal?
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arginine
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We could just let this slide. We are probably going to cause them more damages in infiltrating them, than they cost us (unless we can find an unprotected base).
The Federation wants our help in researching techs and we could use their help in getting influence on the AIs and on the Planetary council. Both sides have a want the other can supply. Should we deal? I think it would be worthwhile to research their techs in exchange for their cooperation.
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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From Maniac, in response to arginine:
quote:
"A question I have regarding this deal would be as to why go through the trouble to have us research I.I. when the Federation itself seems positioned to research it right now? Have the Spartan researchers been so swamped that it would take more than a few turns more than the Morganite researchers, making outsourcing worthwhile?"
As we have gone Fundamentalist with the 20% research penalty, we have chosen to minimize our research effort and focus instead on credits. As a consequence of this choice, while we are indeed researching IntInt ourselves right now, it would be more efficient and faster if the Corporation - without a research penalty - would research Intellectual Integrity.
"but its going to take us time for us too research I.I. as well. Will the Federation have the crawlers ready when the tech is? If need be, the Federation could pay the Corporation extra to jack up its research really high to get I.I. faster."
IIRC we should be able to have sufficient crawlers ready around the time your current research cycle finishes. However currently I don't think further jacking up of your research would be necessary for us.
"I think it will cost more than Social Psych and D loyalty for the Corporation to research I.I. RIGHT NOW. I wonder if it is more than the Federation is willing to pay? I think that will be considered a rip-off by the Federation. Alternatively, there are some forms of compensation other than tech. I, for one, would be interested in neural grafting instead of Social Psych. It will probably be necessary to add some EC on our end to balance out that trade."
Indeed you have a point. Our analysts are now telling us that our passing to the Corporation of Social psych and Doc: Loyalty would not be enough - Int Int would not appear as a research choice for the Corporation. Accordingly, while we don't possess Neural Grafting and thus are unable to give it to you, we would be willing to pass to you either the technology of Ecological Engineering or Secrets of the Human Brain (either of which would be sufficient to produce Int Int as a research choice for the Corporation). |
So, Soc Psych, D:Loy, and either Eco Eng or SotHB. Three techs for I.I. Getting Eco Eng would allow us to start on rocky mines, especially on Mt. Drogue.
However, I think the writing is on the wall, with MCC, CN, and CDF, that the Spartans are barely stifling their war cries.
My response:
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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Here's what I'd like to post when the time is right. (Not to say the time is now.)
quote:
Morgan Embassy at Sparta Command...
Wump-wump-wump-wump!!
"What's that noise?" several interns wondered at once.
Ambassador Micha sighed. "Choppers on the roof," was the quiet reply. The interns' quizical looks cried out for an explanation. "It can mean only one thing," Micha continued. "Emergency evacuation. Get to the roof immediately."
"But-- our files!"
"Forget about those. This place has probably been bugged for months." Micha dropped his hand-computer, bent over to unlock a drawer in his desk, then addressed the hesitant: "What are you waiting for? Get up there."
The Ambassador pulled a holstered sidearm from the drawer and strapped it on. "This could get ugly," he muttered under his breath, to no one in particular-- the once-bustling office was now empty. A draft from the staircase blew papers onto the floor. Micha stepped on them without hesitation. Footprints smudged the oversized headings, "Treaty and Commerce Agreements."
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(Copied to propaganda thread.)
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 11-12-2004 at 05:11
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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And from Maniac:
quote:
As the Corporation has indicated they do not consider infiltrating a faction an acceptable action during a treaty, as we have compensated the Corporation for the loss of the attorney, yet since the Corporation has two Gator Boats located in the ocean we share, one of which is hugging our coasts, the Junta feels we are entitled to ask you the following questions:
How will we be given assurances that future unfriendly acts will not be conducted against the Federation?
How can we continue an association with the Corporation unless we have clear promises from the Corporation that no Morganic units will approach our borders (to be within striking or infiltration distance of our cites or territory) without prior notice to the Junta? How can we continue association with the Corporation without a clear promise from the Corporation that no hostile military actions be taken against the Federation? How can we continue any association with the Corporation without a clear promise from the Corporation that no probe actions be carried out that are directed against or are detrimental to the Federation?
In light of these developments, we would like to request you to withdraw your Gator Boats back to your side of the ocean, and not to send any probes in our direction in the future, unless with prior permission.
The Federation would like to inform you that any Morganic ships not adhering to this request will be considered in violation of the Modo Doctrine, which should soon be announced publically in the next Phalanx.
Lt-Colonel Pedro 'Maniac' Riveira
Commanding Officer of the Spartan Kel |
I was thinking we could respond with something like, "We had similar questions about you after you infiltrated us."
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arginine
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We are going to have to deal with the Spartans. Our period of indecisiveness without consensequence is near its end.
If we are concerned about in invasion I think our best defense is a good navy. If need be, we can crank out lots of 2, 2 laser / synth defenders. They are cheap (2 rows) and that's the point. 2 of our ships should hopefully be able to beat one good Spartan ship.
Yes, I know that there are police problems. Hopefully we can make Vander Eudianomics size 1 in the near future. To make this navy, make a bunch of cities on the coast and have them pump out these boats.
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arginine
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Ok, I did some thinking and I looked at the turn and I think that...
We could have a viable strategy in allying with the Spartans. Namely, we would use the Spartans to control the Planetary council and the two friendly AIs, forming a Spartan-Morgan-PK-Uni voting block. The PKs and Uni would be compelled to our side by Spartan might. The Spartans would expand via conquest, and we would via ICs and grabbing territory near our mainland. Something worth noting is that when allied with a global trade pact every one of our paired cities will bring in 4 energy on our side, and maybe 2 on the Spartan side. I would hope we could 'buy' skilled military units from Spartan Cites. I would imagine us having a bunch of small cities, some energy rich ocean cities, and maybe some big industrial forest cities (If we make that our next round of cities, while we can still popboom).
If the Spartan refuse to ally, we should still play nice, but not help them get I.I. We might hope that they conquer the Uni quickly in the hopes that the other humans will see the Spartans as the primary threat to hegemony, not us. It is possible a Hive-Spartan block might form and it would stand a good chance of emerging victorious.
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arginine
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The Spartans will be getting I.I. and SFF from other suppliers (see their embasy). :P I guess this rules out meaningful long term cooperation. :P
We'll have to reach the other humans soon. I don't want to think about this, and will thus be out.
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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From Modo44 (a new Spartan, I guess), regarding our 'Gator Boat:
quote:
You are of course correct, your disciplined Gator Boats can do little against our commando probe defences. However it is Spartan doctrine now, to deal with any possible security threat before it becomes a real one.
The nature of your Gator Boats is of no significance. We treat the ocean your Gator Boat is currently sailing as our territorial waters, and we don't allow ANY ship on our territory without permission. You didn't receive clearance for this mission, therefore we ask you to remove the ship NOW. You are welcome to explore elsewhere, in neutral waters. |
And my response:quote:
It has technically been in neutral waters only. If you want to claim that northern sea area, consider founding a sea base. If you have some idea of what "your waters" are, please be more specific if you want us to understand what you mean. |
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 19-12-2004 at 23:12
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#endgame
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of the town of ZZT
Dec 2003
time: 15:21
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This worries me:
quote:
From the latest Spartan newspaper:
Modo Doctrine announced!
by Lieutenant Colonel Maniac
In a special press conference today Lt-Colonel Googlie, Director of CRYPTEIA, the Spartan Data Security & Counterespionage Agency, and Lt-Commander Modo of the Spartan Auxiliary Navy, announced the “Modo Doctrine”.
Following the example of the Old Earth American Monroe Doctrine, they declared the following: “Sparta declares the inviolability of the Federation, its territory and its coastal waters, extending 8 tiles from its bases. Any vessel or unit, whether armed or unarmed, encroaching within this Federation Zone will be destroyed without warning.”
They also gave a stern warning to any foreign ships currently present in this Federation Zone to withdraw immediately or face the consequences, by being sunk by Sparta’s ever growing Coastal Guard, after the completion of the Maritime Control Centre the fastest of all Chiron.
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06-12-2004 01:53
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