11-10-2004 07:40									#31
	North v. South Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

1888 has the distinction, like 2000, of being one of those elections that had different popular and electoral college results. The country is split right in the center.

Another close election. Another GOP victory.

Benjamin Harrison (Republican) gets 47.82% of the vote to Grover Cleveland's (Democrat) 48.62% of the vote. The spoilers in 1888 were Clinton Fisk (Prohibition) with 2.19% of the vote and Alson Streeter (Union Labor) with 1.29% of the vote.

	11-10-2004 07:40									#32
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.

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	11-10-2004 07:41									#33
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No he doesn't. Ford won Michigan in 1976; it's his home state.

	11-10-2004 07:45									#34
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Ok.

	11-10-2004 07:46									#35
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No I don't. This just demonstrates how badly the Dems have screwed up on the social issues. In less than a generation, the south went from strong D to strong R.

Damn it. Don't use that map. It screws up the thread!

	11-10-2004 07:48									#36
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Dan, I don't think that's necessarily due to the Dems screwing up on social issues. I think it's cuz the South has screwed up on social issues.

	11-10-2004 07:51									#37
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I think it's based on such a large population of the south being racist. When the dems started pusing for civil rights for all, the south bailed on them.

	11-10-2004 08:00									#38
	The most divided era -- North v. South Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The most divided era of US presidential politics easily is the period 1876 to 1892. It puts the current era to shame, with the largest margin of victory being 3%, and 2 elections where the electoral college was opposite to the popular vote.

1876 -- Rutherford Hayes (R) with 47.95% over Samuel Tilden (D) with 50.97% (he had an absolute majority, but lost -- again, the GOP has a track record here... )

1880 -- James Garfield (R) with 48.27% over Winfield Hancock (D) with 48.25% (less than 2,000 votes difference -- just imagine if the whole country was looking at hanging chads rather than just Florida ).

1884 -- Grover Cleveland (D) with 48.5% over James Blaine (R) with 48.25%

1888 -- Discussed above.

1892 -- Grover Cleveland (D) with 46.02% over Benjamin Harrison (R) with 43.01%.

Last edited by DanS on 11-10-2004 at 08:06

	11-10-2004 08:05									#39
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You have the D and R switched for '92.

	11-10-2004 08:07									#40
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Thanks. Fixed.

	11-10-2004 08:20									#41
	The Whig Implosion Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I guess the Republican party learned its lesson to be unified at all costs by the election of 1836. And it learned to pick the winning side on the slavery/rights issue. On the one hand, it was a close race. Martin Van Buren (D) scored 50.83% to the Whigs scoring 49.09%.

Unfortunately, that 49.09% of the vote was divided over 4 Whig candidates, with William Harrison garnering the most at 36.63% of the vote.

The interesting thing about 1836 is that it was the last year until 1984 that the Whigs (later Republicans) did well in the South. It was a long, long drought...

Martin Van Buren -- Democrat (Red)
William Harrison -- Whig (Green)
Hugh White -- Whig (Yellow)
Daniel Webster -- Whig (Orange)
Willie Mangum -- Whig (Gray)

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	11-10-2004 08:22									#42
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good thing you specified the whigs . I was going to say there was no republican party.

	11-10-2004 08:27									#43
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Red states - Comrade Vladimir Putin

Note: Elections under Russian military supervision to ensure fairness.

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	11-10-2004 08:31									#44
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Actually, if you split the socialists (and Socialist Labor and Union Labor) from the communists, then the high water mark for the Communist Party in the US (so far ) was William Foster with 0.26% of the vote in 1932.

	11-10-2004 08:32									#45
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And in 2008, with 99.99%.

	11-10-2004 08:34									#46
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Who are the counter-revolutionary pigdogs that will vote against them?

	11-10-2004 08:34									#47
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In the American oblast? Fez.

	11-10-2004 08:40									#48
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this thread has been Tassed...

	11-10-2004 08:47									#49
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quote: The interesting thing about 1836 is that it was the last year until 1984 that the Whigs (later Republicans) did well in the South. It was a long, long drought...

What about Nixon's southern strategy? Check '68 and '72.

	11-10-2004 08:53									#50
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Well '68 was mixed. Nixon got part of the South. '72 was more a blowout nationwide, so I guess I don't attribute that to the South moving to the GOP. Of course, you could say the same for '84, which I would concede and then fall back to '88.

	11-10-2004 22:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by DanS No I don't. This just demonstrates how badly the Dems have screwed up on the social issues. In less than a generation, the south went from strong D to strong R.

That has nothing to do with social issueS and everything to do with one social issue, civil rights. When the Democrats stopped being the party of White Supremacy, the Republicans decided to become the party of White Supremacy.

	11-10-2004 23:12									#52
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Not surprisingly, I don't agree with you. To be sure, white supremacy still lives. But I don't think that's how the GOP is able to gain strong majorities in the South, because I don't think the majority of those in the South are white supremacists any more.

	11-10-2004 23:16									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Not surprisingly, I don't agree with you. To be sure, white supremacy still lives. But I don't think that's how the GOP is able to gain strong majorities in the South, because I don't think the majority of those in the South are white supremacists any more.

Republicans won the south by opposing civil rights- that is well known.

As for "social issues"- Americans have varied social values- that many conservatives feel their values are under attack means little to many other Americans.

	11-10-2004 23:34									#54
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Republicans won the south by opposing civil rights- that is well known.

So well known that I am unaware of it. Please provide preponderance of evidence to support BAM.

	11-10-2004 23:36									#55
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Its called Nixon's southern Strategy. You can also look at the list of dems. turned republicans in the south and their record on civil rights. BUt if you want to be thick about it, feel free to be yourself

	11-10-2004 23:58									#56
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Run through the dethickenating translator - GePap has no real basis for his argument other than to say the Democratic party abandoned southern dems leaving them no place to go. Repubs being the party of inclusion took them in.

Course most of that happened in Rayguns time.

	12-10-2004 01:01									#57
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I don't think the nation is as divided as it is schizophrenic. The average person the "battleground" states is socially conservative and economically liberal. The Republicans have been successful in religious wedge issues to make people ignore economic problems.

	12-10-2004 01:10									#58
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Does anyone else find the phrase "economically liberal" ambiguous and confusing?

	12-10-2004 01:11									#59
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I would agree that use of religious wedge issues has made Repubs far more attractive to southern Dems than restriction of civil rights issues.

	12-10-2004 02:22									#60
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Republicans won the south by opposing civil rights- that is well known.

This is a lie. Dirkson was critical to passing the Civil Rights Act. Nixon began Affirmative Action.