11-10-2004 06:40									#1
	A Nation Divided Full PM-box? Change here!

We've heard so much about how the US is divided politically, and how Nader screwed up the race last time for Gore, so I thought I'd take a trip down history lane to see how divided we are in context. As it turns out, there have been lots of times when the US has been divided politically almost right down the middle.

Here's an election we don't hear about much -- 1916. The Socialist candidate got 3.19% of the popular vote and was the difference between Woodrow Wilson (Democrat, red @ 49.24% of the vote) and Charles Hughes (Republican, blue @ 46.12% of the vote).

The high water mark for the socialists in the US was the good economic times of 1920. Eugene Debs garnered 3.41% of the popular vote.

Edit: As Ramo points out, the high water mark for the socialists in the US was the 1912 elections, where Eugene Debs garnered 5.99% of the vote.

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Last edited by DanS on 11-10-2004 at 08:39

	11-10-2004 06:41									#2
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There was also a little-known period in the US where Americans were *really* divided!

	11-10-2004 06:42									#3
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why are some states darker than others?

my state likes to vote republican, what can I say. But I think we voted for clinton in 1996.

	11-10-2004 06:43									#4
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Sorry to show my ignorance, but what are the names of the two isolated red/blue states on either side of the map?

	11-10-2004 06:44									#5
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That shows the intensity of the vote. F.e., many southern states were hard core Democrat, so are very red.

	11-10-2004 06:44									#6
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Oregon and... Vermont or New Hampshire (I get them confused always )

	11-10-2004 06:45									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That shows the intensity of the vote. F.e., many southern states were hard core Democrat, so are very red.

aren't democrats blue?

	11-10-2004 06:45									#8
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Oregon on the left. New Hampshire on the right.

	11-10-2004 06:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Oregon and... Vermont or New Hampshire (I get them confused always )

cheers, Diss

New Hampshire was Socialist?

	11-10-2004 06:46									#10
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quote: aren't democrats blue?

Nope. It's only in the last 20 years have the Republicans dominated the south. It used to be quite the opposite. The whole Abraham Lincoln was a Republican thing.

	11-10-2004 06:47									#11
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quote: New Hampshire was Socialist?

No. Democrat.

	11-10-2004 06:47									#12
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so my state did regularly vote democrat at one point in history. We have closely followed the south in voting patterns for many, many years.

	11-10-2004 06:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DanS No. Democrat.

Ah, right, in the UK we use red for left wing and blue for right wing.

	11-10-2004 06:52									#14
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For comparison purposes, here's the 2000 map. Gore got 48.38% of the vote and Bush got 47.87% of the vote. Nader was the spoiler at 2.73% of the vote.

New Hampshire demonstrates its continued maverick streak from the 1916 elections, but Oregon couldn't quite bring itself to do the same.

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	11-10-2004 06:54									#15
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ack! you are screwing me up by mixing up the colors

red should = republicans. Always

you will see my state is lightly shaded. We were real close to the end. One of the last states to finish counting. Florida being the last of course.

I think this next election Kerry stands a chance to win. We've had many Californians move here over the years. We are much more liberal than we used to be.

	11-10-2004 06:54									#16
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The North needs to declare Independence.

	11-10-2004 06:54									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DanS For comparison purposes, here's the 2000 map. Gore got 48.38% of the vote and Bush got 47.87% of the vote. Nader was the spoiler at 2.73% of the vote. New Hampshire demonstrates its continued maverick streak from the 1916 elections, but Oregon couldn't quite bring itself to do the same.

the states around it all 'flipped' as well

	11-10-2004 06:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident red should = republicans. Always

Nah, red = left.

Always

	11-10-2004 06:58									#19
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo The North needs to declare Independence.

But then where would we get all the footsoldiers for our badass army from?

	11-10-2004 07:05									#20
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Here's another wartime election that has a lot of parallels to our current one, 1944. FDR was going for his fourth term. He played on past successes and was even stronger in denouncing his opponent as dangerous for the country than Bush is (David Broder described Bush as a "piker in comparison").

After all of his successes, and being a wartime leader, FDR (Democrat) only won 53.39% of the vote to Thomas Dewey's (Republican) 45.89%. WaPo's tracking poll puts Bush at 51% and Kerry at 46% in comparison.

The Texas Regulars won 0.28% of the vote. Who the hell are they? I haven't heard of them before.

Attachment: pe1944.png
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	11-10-2004 07:06									#21
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where are you finding those? I did a google search, but I can't find the one I'm looking for.

post the 1960 results. That was a close one.

	11-10-2004 07:10									#22
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edit: although mine's better

	11-10-2004 07:13									#23
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Dude. Edit that out. It's screwing up the page.

The election of 1960 was a close one. A real nail biter.

John Kennedy (Democrat) took 49.72% of the vote to Richard Nixon's (Republican) 49.55% of the vote.

The electoral college shows some funky colors because there were some unpledged Democratic electors in the South (Dixicrat holdouts?).

Attachment: pe1960.png
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	11-10-2004 07:15									#24
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my map shows Byrd, and Independant winning Mississippi and part of Alabama (I"m assuming the electors split their vote), and also 1 elector in Oklahoma went with Byrd.

	11-10-2004 07:17									#25
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quote: Here's an election we don't hear about much -- 1916. The Socialist candidate got 3.19% of the popular vote and was the difference between Woodrow Wilson (Democrat, red @ 49.24% of the vote) and Charles Hughes (Republican, blue @ 46.12% of the vote). The high water mark for the socialists in the US was the good economic times of 1920. Eugene Debs garnered 3.41% of the popular vote.

IIRC, the Socialists got ~6% in 1912. That was a divisive election.

	11-10-2004 07:19									#26
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You know, it seems like most of our presidential elections are really close. Have been for about 150 years.

Here's a fun electoral map. 1976. A really close election. Jimmy Carter scores 50.08% of the vote to Gerald Ford's 48.02% of the vote.

Luckily, Republican California and the rest of the West didn't seceed from the Union.

Attachment: pe1976.png
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	11-10-2004 07:22									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DanS You know, it seems like most of our presidential elections are really close. Have been for about 150 years. Here's a fun electoral map. 1976. A really close election. Jimmy Carter scores 50.08% of the vote to Gerald Ford's 48.02% of the vote. Luckily, Republican California and the rest of the West didn't seceed from the Union.

you sure the colors didn't reverse? I thought the south was voting republican at this point (after the democrats supported civil rights reforms in the 60's the south went from voting democratic to republican)

	11-10-2004 07:24									#28
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quote: IRC, the Socialists got ~6% in 1912. That was a divisive election.

You are correct, sir. I hadn't caught that. 1912 is a free-for-all -- a lot like 1992.

	11-10-2004 07:25									#29
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Nope. Carter had a lot of Southern support in '76 (and he was a Georgian, running against a Yankee, mind you). In the previous relatively close election, '68, Humphrey won a few deep Southern states.

	11-10-2004 07:37									#30
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Ramo: He has the colors reversed.