19-10-2004 08:02									#121
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quote: That only happened once, and this isn't that time.

	19-10-2004 14:20									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It was probably in the negative because of your tendancy to weasal when you've been shown wrong .

Being the author of the post I know best about how it was intended...I don't need you pwning interpreting it for me...

	19-10-2004 19:57									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Micah Goodman But I get tired of people implying that high oil prices are some Machiavellian plot to enrich oil companies.

If you think today is bad where Democrats accuse Bush of wanting higher oil prices so that his oil cartel buddies can make more profit, you should then there in the late 1970s when Jimmy "The Fool" Carter almost daily blamed high oil prices on the oil companies and went out of his way to accuse them of making excess profits. He even got Congress to pass an excess profits tax back in those days so that the oil companies could not take advantage of the high oil prices that were caused by oil price controls originally imposed by Nixon but maintained by both Ford and Carter. The insanity that was the Carter administration did not end until we elected Reagan.

By the way, Carter was on the Chris Matthews show last night. The pronouncements coming out of his mouth, particularly on Iraq, were not only insane, they were out and out racist. He more or less said that people like the Iraqis were incapable of democracy -- this on a day when Afghanistan had completed its first national election in its history, proving a lie to the very words that were spilling vilefully from his putrid mouth. He declared that the only valid strategy for America was to plan its early exit and to leave Iraq to the UN.

	19-10-2004 20:00									#124
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Why are people opposed to drilling for Anwar's oil from locations outside of the protected wilderness?

	19-10-2004 20:11									#125
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Personally, while I'd obviously prefer prices to be lower, it hasn't hurt me all that much.

First off, I drive a relatively efficient car (Honda Accord, 26.5 mpg in mixed driving). Second, my office moved last year into the same building my finacee works in, so now we drive in together, which saves us a bundle on gas/wear & tear/parking fees (well, it saves HER parking money, not me. My parking was free before ).

And generally I think it's a good thing that will help push more efficient technology. I like seeing the Hybrid tech being put into normal cars. Next time 'round, I will probably buy one of those.

-Arrian

	19-10-2004 20:21									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Ned By the way, Carter was on the Chris Matthews show last night. The pronouncements coming out of his mouth, particularly on Iraq, were not only insane, they were out and out racist. He more or less said that people like the Iraqis were incapable of democracy -- this on a day when Afghanistan had completed its first national election in its history, proving a lie to the very words that were spilling vilefully from his putrid mouth. He declared that the only valid strategy for America was to plan its early exit and to leave Iraq to the UN.

The election in Afghanistan was a disaster. So will the election in Iraq. Carter was right on.

	19-10-2004 20:24									#127
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I like the idea of higher prices where the money goes to a good cause, like developing and implementing new technology or building better transportion. I don't like the idea of more profits going to the oil companies so that it can be spent lobbying congress to do things that we as a society generally disagree with.

	19-10-2004 20:27									#128
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Good point there, Kid. Did I just say that?

Anyway, it does suck that the oil companies, who will of course fight the alternative fuels tooth and nail, are getting rich off the current prices. On the other hand, they are ultimately fighting a losing battle (even if it takes decades for them to finally lose). They can either be smart and invest in the alternative fuel market now, so they can make money on it down the road, or they can just try to obstruct, and go down in flames later.

-Arrian

	19-10-2004 20:29									#129
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Didn't either one of you look at the calculations in JohnT's link from an earlier thread? In order to realize $11B in profits, XOM paid $68B in taxes. If only M$oft paid anything close to that ratio.

	19-10-2004 20:31									#130
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And those taxes, like the rest of them, will no doubt be largely wasted by the government.

edit: furthermore, those figures are scary in and of themselves, because a government that makes $68 billion off of a company is likely to listen to that company's tale of woe when times get tough, because that nice fat paycheck might just dry up...

-Arrian

	19-10-2004 20:35									#131
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quote: Originally posted by pchang Didn't either one of you look at the calculations in JohnT's link from an earlier thread? In order to realize $11B in profits, XOM paid $68B in taxes. If only M$oft paid anything close to that ratio.

Taxes are only one part of costs. XOM definitely makes their share in profit or they wouldn't be in the oil business. Would you rather XOM made $79B in profit and spend most of that lobbying congress?

	19-10-2004 20:36									#132
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Repeat: Why are people opposed to drilling Anwar oil from outside Anwar?

	19-10-2004 20:37									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The election in Afghanistan was a disaster. So will the election in Iraq. Carter was right on.

Kid, link to the disaster story? Or is this your personal opinion?

	19-10-2004 20:40									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Kid, link to the disaster story? Or is this your personal opinion?

I heard it on Pacifica. Voter cards were handed out. Every voter was suppose to get one card, but some people got more than one and some people didn't get any. The Pacifica reporter was even given a card, and could have voted.

I'll try and find the link.

	19-10-2004 20:43									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Repeat: Why are people opposed to drilling Anwar oil from outside Anwar?

I don't like it as a short term solution. Better long term solutions should have been implemented. I'm not in a big hurry to drill all the last remaining reserves of oil to make Bush's buddies rich.

	19-10-2004 20:44									#136
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RE: Anwar... since I want us to kick our over-dependency on oil, I see Anwar as just delaying the inevitable and desirable result. Just another place sullied by oil drilling (it DOES make a mess, Ned. I've got several oil well claims on my desk right now).

-Arrian

	19-10-2004 20:46									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I don't like it as a short term solution. Better long term solutions should have been implemented. I'm not in a big hurry to drill all the last remaining reserves of oil to make Bush's buddies rich.

So it makes more sense to buy Saudi oil during the interim?

The foolishness of these ideas are clearly apparent.

	19-10-2004 20:59									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Ned So it makes more sense to buy Saudi oil during the interim? The foolishness of these ideas are clearly apparent.

I would rather buy Saudi oil than line the pockets of the oil companies. Even though it seems obvious to me that the Saudis influence our govt, their influence has legal restraints.

	19-10-2004 21:04									#139
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I also have my doubts that drilling will really lower the price of oil.

We are often told that policies that help the oil companies help us, and let's just say that that is sometimes not true.

	19-10-2004 21:04									#140
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quote: I would rather buy Saudi oil than line the pockets of the oil companies

Are the two even mutually exclusive? After all it's the oil companies like Mobil that will buy the Saudi oil and turn around and sell it to us, and turn a profit on the deal.

-Arrian

	19-10-2004 21:06									#141
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You'd rather line the pockets of a tyrannical theocracy that supports terrorism than the "oil companies"?

	19-10-2004 21:07									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Are the two even mutually exclusive? After all it's the oil companies like Mobil that will buy the Saudi oil and turn around and sell it to us, and turn a profit on the deal. -Arrian

Why is this about oil company profits?

	19-10-2004 21:07									#143
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Good point Arrian. I don't know, but I don't get real happy about making either of them richer when I go to the pump.

	19-10-2004 21:09									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker You'd rather line the pockets of a tyrannical theocracy that supports terrorism than the "oil companies"?

Well Bush doesn't see any difference between the two. I guess that's one thing that I agree with him about.

	19-10-2004 21:19									#145
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What about the good people of Alaska who basic needs will be met by their share of the royalties from Anwar? Why do you guys hate the Alaskan poor?

	19-10-2004 21:27									#147
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@ Ned.

	19-10-2004 21:35									#149
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Alaskans

	24-10-2004 00:11									#150
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Most of the arguments against drilling in ANWAR are the same arguments used against the Alaskan pipeline. The world is going to end, the environment will be destroyed, animals will die by the millions, caribou will die because their migratory patterns will be irrevocably altered, ect. Well, here is the truth, the environment hasn’t been destroyed. The caribou population actually increased and millions of gallons of oil gets transported much safer and more economically than putting it in oil tankers.

Now some people jump up and down and scream we MUST protect ANWAR! ANWAR is a frozen swamp. That’s it. There is nothing there. The laws for drilling on federal land (95 percent of the state of Alaska is owned by the federal government) are very stringent. As long as the oil drills are maintained and the area kept clean I really don’t understand what all the complaining is about. Well, actually I do radical environmentalists want no new technological advance and want us all to become one with nature. (Harp music playing in the back ground) The reality of this issue is that you can have both a clean environment AND access to natural resources. It doesn’t have to be an either or situation.

When I was in High School the big environmental issue was the Rain Forest. I remember people quoting that the equivalent of three American Football Fields were getting cut down every minute. Well, like most of the scare tactics used by the radical environmentalists it wasn’t true. As far as oil companies getting rich off oil profits I would rather they get it than an unresponsive wasteful and corrupt Federal Government. Here’s the dirty little secret about oil companies. They provide these things called jobs. And in a political climate where people complain about out sourcing and low paying jobs, oil companies provide both high paying jobs and local employment at refineries in THIS country. When companies make money, their employees make money. So what if oil companies get rich? I have never been employed by a poor man.