16-11-2004 03:56									#421
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Martz knows when to run and when to pass. *ahem* 2001 Super Bowl. No he doesn't. Faulk is incredibly underused for a back with his talent.

Faulk is also a great reciever. And yes he did blow it in 2001 Super Bowl, obviously because they lost. However, they did get there, and that is a great achievement, and Martz deserves some credit for that.

	16-11-2004 08:37									#422
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Holy Cow! Over 14 seconds between the snap and McNabb launching a 60 yard completion! Damm good scrambling job by McNabb!

Score now 34-14 Iggles...

D

	16-11-2004 09:53									#423
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quote: I see the Steelers losing if they lose Hines Ward or Plaxico Burress. At the moment they have offensive balance which is spreading defenses. Lose one of them, and you can concentrate on the others

They'll just plug in Randel-El. And they are concentrating on the others, the Steelers run much more than they pass and defenses know that it is coming... and still can't stop it.

quote: When a team surprises everybody they look dominant, but sooner or later a team will find a flaw which sends it down.

If Belicheck and Reed can't find a 'flaw', I think it's safe to say they'll go far and they'll lose only if they overlook a team or lose their starting QB.

And I don't see a weak secondary. Their passing YPA is ranked better than their rushing YPA.

quote: However, they did get there, and that is a great achievement, and Martz deserves some credit for that.

Eh... Vermeil built the team.

	16-11-2004 09:56									#424
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quote: Originally posted by pchang Patriots are just stifling McGahee and Bledsoe is back to throwing picks. This is really ugly. Makes you wonder how the Steelers beat them? Was it a 1 game mirage?

The Bills suck, that's why.

There's a reason the Pats got rid of Bledsoe. You figure it out.

	16-11-2004 09:59									#425
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Got to love the Eagles... I needed a decent night out of TO to win my fantasy game... Needless to say, 3 TD's was more than enough

	16-11-2004 10:02									#426
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: However, they did get there, and that is a great achievement, and Martz deserves some credit for that. Eh... Vermeil built the team.

Give me a break. Vermeil deserves all the credit for 1999, and no more credit for 2001 than any other years since he left, including the year they went 7-9.

	16-11-2004 10:23									#427
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quote: If Belicheck and Reed can't find a 'flaw', I think it's safe to say they'll go far and they'll lose only if they overlook a team or lose their starting QB.

Flaws present themselves when you least expect it. If you try to cut through a piece of wood with scissors, and you don't know much about it, you need someone to get lucky with a saw before it becomes obvious.

quote: They'll just plug in Randel-El. And they are concentrating on the others, the Steelers run much more than they pass and defenses know that it is coming... and still can't stop it.

Best run blocking unit in football. Teams could put 8 in the box and stop it, but Hines Ward and a rejuvenated Burress are not allowing them to do it.

	16-11-2004 10:33									#428
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quote: Give me a break. Vermeil deserves all the credit for 1999, and no more credit for 2001 than any other years since he left, including the year they went 7-9.

The team was his team. Just like George Seifert gets little credit from me for 1989 (it was Walsh's team), but gets credit for 1996.

quote: Best run blocking unit in football. Teams could put 8 in the box and stop it, but Hines Ward and a rejuvenated Burress are not allowing them to do it.

So then what was the problem last year? Ward and Burress were around then and had some EXCELLENT years (95 catches for Ward, 60 for Burress). They were also 31st in rushing yards and 32nd (dead last) in YPA. The offensive line is basically unchanged from a year ago. It's the QB and the coaching, not the line itself.

	16-11-2004 10:37									#429
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Give me a break. Vermeil deserves all the credit for 1999, and no more credit for 2001 than any other years since he left, including the year they went 7-9. The team was his team.

NO. It wasn't. He was not the coach. Period. There should be no debate. Ah, but I forget ....

	16-11-2004 10:40									#430
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quote: NO. It wasn't. He was not the coach. Period.

So what? It's quite easy to be a 'good coach' when the previous coach has built up the foundation and the walls and all you have to do is make sure it keeps going like it was. The true test is a few years down the line when there is turnover of players.

	16-11-2004 11:15									#431
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: NO. It wasn't. He was not the coach. Period. So what? It's quite easy to be a 'good coach' when the previous coach has built up the foundation and the walls and all you have to do is make sure it keeps going like it was. The true test is a few years down the line when there is turnover of players.

It's hard enough for a coach to maintain the effectiveness of his own team after winning a Super Bowl. Keeping things going is even harder than getting things going. Especially these days. Martz has done a really good job overall. The rest of the organization deserves a lot of credit too. Vermeil deserves only credit for his work in KC during that time, which isn't as much credit as Martz deserves.

	16-11-2004 11:26									#432
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: NO. It wasn't. He was not the coach. Period. So what? It's quite easy to be a 'good coach' when the previous coach has built up the foundation and the walls and all you have to do is make sure it keeps going like it was. The true test is a few years down the line when there is turnover of players.

But Seifert was at least smart enough not to mess with a good thing.

ACK!

	16-11-2004 11:36									#433
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quote: Keeping things going is even harder than getting things going.

I totally disagree! Who will be remembered as a better coach? Bill Walsh or George Seifert? Dick Vermeil or Mike Martz? It'll be the former, because it is MUCH harder getting things going that keeping them moving on.

Martz is NOT a good coach. He has taken a team with great talent and hasn't done very much with it at all. The inertia of the Vermeil years led to another Superbowl berth, but since then they've been mediocre to above average. But never close to as good as the SuperBowl winning team.

	16-11-2004 11:50									#434
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Of course they aren't as good, because they don't have as much talent. Still Martz does pretty well. I never said he was better than Vermeil, but he is pretty good. Chumps don't go to the Superbowl. I don't care what team they inherit. And by the way, the 2001 team was not the same team. There were a lot of personel changes, and anyway the 2000 team didn't do much. Why not, isn't that team even more Vermeil's team?

	16-11-2004 11:58									#435
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski But Seifert was at least smart enough not to mess with a good thing. ACK!

Martz did make changes. Thank you very much for nailing my point home. He made changes and took HIS team to the Superbowl.

	16-11-2004 12:09									#436
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Yeah, he made a lot of changes... which is why it amazingly resembled the 1999 teams gameplan (with slightly more passing - 551 attempts rather than 530 attempts - and 416 rushes compared to 431 rushes) .

quote: Why not, isn't that team even more Vermeil's team?

That team was based on Vermeil's reign as well, and they did win the division, but suffered from Warner's injuries in the playoffs. The D was a bit of a problem for some reason that year as well (while in 1999 and 2001, the D was very good).

quote: And by the way, the 2001 team was not the same team. There were a lot of personel changes

Let's see... QB: Warner, check. RB: Faulk, check, WR: Holt , Bruce, and Hakim, check, check and check. What are these 'lot of personel changes'. They obviously didn't affec tthe heart of the time.

I'll even accept that the 2002 Rams which went 7-9 was more Vermeil's team. Last year, I'd say it was Martz's team, since his decision was Bulger at QB and Holt as the focal point of the offense.

	16-11-2004 12:31									#437
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There were a lot of changes especially on defense, which is why there was problems. And btw, we lost Hakim before 2001. I'm pretty sure is was in 2000.

The 1999 was on of the greatest teams of all-time. The 2000 and later teams had only a fraction of the total talent. You seem to think that if Vermeil stayed with the Rams it would be 1999 forever. It doesn't work like that in the NFL anymore. About the closest thing to that is the Pats and then the Rams. But there will never be another Niners of the 80s, or a Steelers of the 70s. I don't care who the coach is. I would say that Belichick is the best coach right now, and I doubt if the Pats will be able to continue dominance.

	16-11-2004 12:41									#438
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quote: And btw, we lost Hakim before 2001. I'm pretty sure is was in 2000.

Jeez, you don't even know you own damned team!

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...rs/HakiAz00.htm

Hakim played 10 games for the Rams in 2001 before he left for the Lions.

quote: The 2000 and latter teams had only a fraction of the total talent.

Which key players did the 2000 and 2001 team not have that the 1999 team had? What Todd Lyght and Kevin Carter? Like that is a big difference maker. Aeneas Williams replaced Lyght and Carter was replaced.

quote: You seem to think that if Vermeil stayed with the Rams it would be 1999 forever.

Um no. I'm syaing Vermeil built the foundation and the walls of that team. Martz just kept it standing for the 2001 Superbowl and I'd call that more of Vermeil's team than Martz's. Yeah, you have to be a decent coach to not have it fall apart, but not as good as when you get handed crap to start out with. Coaches WISH to get put in that situation that Martz was in. Then they could pile up the impressive coaching stats which they never could in Cinncinati (Hello Sam Wyche) or Detroit (Bobby Ross says hi). Martz got placed in a lucky situation where things were already built for him. He was smart enough as a coach to build on it, but that doesn't mean he was mainly responsible for 2001 or that he is a good HEAD coach.

	16-11-2004 13:01									#439
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They lost a great deal of players Imran. Stars don't win Superbowls, teams do. If stars were all that mattered the Rams would still be just as good. The Rams have something like 5 or 6 players from the 1999 team now. The have steadily lost players since 1999. 2001 was not the same team as 1999. Not even close.

	16-11-2004 13:54									#440
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I disagree.

How many times do we see a team go from worst to first, and then worst again?

With the slanted schedules, it is much more difficult for a good team to stay on top, then it is for a mediocre team to rise from the bottom to the top.

The fact that Martz, even given the toughest schedule, still made the Bowl, speaks as a testimony to his coaching.

	16-11-2004 22:44									#441
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quote: They lost a great deal of players Imran. Stars don't win Superbowls, teams do.

So which important team players did they lose? What was so different about the teams? The answer is not so much.

quote: The fact that Martz, even given the toughest schedule, still made the Bowl, speaks as a testimony to his coaching.

Not really. There have been a number of average coaches who have made a Superbowl who we don't call great coaches. Barry Switzer for one. Jim Fassel is another (ask any Giants fan and they'll tell you how they despise Fassel). Bill Callahan (who was run out a year later) is another. What about Dom Capers?

Barry Switzer and Bill Callahan 'kept a good team on top', to boot.

Just because they make it to the big game doesn't make them a great coach.

	16-11-2004 23:54									#442
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When are we going to get a break?

"LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- Just when their defense was playing at a high level and sparking a three-game winning streak, the Chicago Bears lost star linebacker Brian Urlacher.
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Urlacher will be out four to six weeks after suffering an injury to his lower left leg that required a surgical procedure Monday to relieve the pressure of internal bleeding.

The four-time Pro Bowler was injured during Sunday's 19-17 victory over the Tennessee Titans, but the severity did not surface until later."

	17-11-2004 00:26									#443
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I would suggest that a 3-game win streak with a rookie QB with a 30% completion rate -- including 2 against teams with their own starting QB down -- WAS our break.

The appearance of Indianapolis on the schedule is a pretty clear signal that break time is over for The Beloved.

	17-11-2004 01:31									#444
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan Holy Cow! Over 14 seconds between the snap and McNabb launching a 60 yard completion! Damm good scrambling job by McNabb!

That was a joy to watch.

Eagles only need to go 5-2 for a first round bye....

	17-11-2004 02:09									#445
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quote: Originally posted by Ned When are we going to get a break? "LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- Just when their defense was playing at a high level and sparking a three-game winning streak, the Chicago Bears lost star linebacker Brian Urlacher. Advertisement Urlacher will be out four to six weeks after suffering an injury to his lower left leg that required a surgical procedure Monday to relieve the pressure of internal bleeding. The four-time Pro Bowler was injured during Sunday's 19-17 victory over the Tennessee Titans, but the severity did not surface until later."

When I'm I going to get a break? That's the third guy that I drafted out with injuries.

	17-11-2004 02:50									#446
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Actually, it's the 2nd time Urlacher's gone down...

	17-11-2004 02:51									#447
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Anyone think Elli Manning will do any better than Kurt Warner?

I think there is something wrong with Warner now. What the hell happened to that quick release you had in his glory days?

Elli is better but the Giants have a tough schedule ahead of them, and teams are going to keep exploiting their weaknesses.

	17-11-2004 04:21									#448
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quote: Eagles only need to go 5-2 for a first round bye....

Only? They also need to go 6-1 for the #1 seed.

	17-11-2004 18:45									#449
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Anyone think Elli Manning will do any better than Kurt Warner?

Not with that O-line. They will probably do a lot of quick-release stuff so Eli won't be a sitting duck in the pocket, and Tiki will be asked to carry the load.

I thought Warner was gonna take them to the playoffs. But he lost it. Now, I think the Giants are toast.

	17-11-2004 23:29									#450
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I think Warner has a problem following instructions from coaches. He doesn't get rid of the ball quick when he's told to.

I think that might have been what happened with the Rams. Look at the Rams game last week after O. Pace was booted. Bulger used 3 step drops and didn't get sacked once. That's all you have to do. That's why I think Warner gets the boot.