18-10-2004 21:44									#31
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Sounds like someone needs to sneak into that shrine and add "Enola Gay".

	18-10-2004 21:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Isn't it a shrine to all of the nation's war dead and not just a shrine to war criminals per say? Plus I wouldn't call it worshippng. More like honoring; saying we have not forgotten you and all of that.

People in Germany may not want to forget their war dead in WWII either. Would people be angered if Hitler and like got a shrine that honors them?

	18-10-2004 21:49									#33
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As stated above the shrine is not specifically for the war criminals and they were added in by a single Japanese politician decades later. There is a lot of fuss over something that is very small.

	18-10-2004 21:50									#34
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quote: People in Germany may not want to forget their war dead in WWII either. Would people be angered if Hitler and like got a shrine that honors them?

i think albert speer would like to be honored...

	18-10-2004 21:50									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: Actually Chinese characters are equivalent to English words. They are made up by limited number of "BiHua" which is correspondence to letters, only there are fewer BiHua than letters. To teach and learn a Chinese character for a Chinese is no more difficult than to teach and learn a English word for a westerner. is this simplified or traditional written chinese we're talking about?

Traditional Chinese are a little more complicated than the simplified version. However they are based on the same set of BiHua (strokes). Some characters are the same in both versions. Other traditional characters are not used much any more, just as some of the English words that used to be used in ancient literatures I think.

	18-10-2004 21:52									#36
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quote: As stated above the shrine is not specifically for the war criminals and they were added in by a single Japanese politician decades later. There is a lot of fuss over something that is very small.

i hardly think that honoring people who thought that mass murder, brutal biological experiments, wholesale rape, and forced conscription to be cannon fodder is "something that is very small."

	18-10-2004 21:55									#37
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quote: Traditional Chinese are a little more complicated than the simplified version. However they are based on the same set of BiHua (strokes). Some characters are the same in both versions. Other traditional characters are not used much any more, just as some of the English words that used to be used in ancient literatures I think.

but see, if hanzi is as easy as that, why isn't it taught that way? the few i had to learn for korean and japanese, we were taught by meanings, not by strokes and radicals. granted, i had a leg up on some of the other students when learning kanji, since i already knew how to use the dictionaries, but...

it seems to me that even though there are only a limited number of bihua, there are enough forms and combinations, coupled with enough words which don't have their meanings broken down into component parts, as well as the ones that are read phonetically, and not meaningfully, that the system is a bit more unwieldy than a phonetic system.

	18-10-2004 21:58									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: As stated above the shrine is not specifically for the war criminals and they were added in by a single Japanese politician decades later. There is a lot of fuss over something that is very small. i hardly think that honoring people who thought that mass murder, brutal biological experiments, wholesale rape, and forced conscription to be cannon fodder is "something that is very small."

I agree it is distasteful but if you are going to honor all members of the military who died during the war then everyone's name should be on it. It's kind of pointless and unproductive to play politics about it decades later.

	18-10-2004 21:59									#39
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War criminals should not be honored.

	18-10-2004 22:03									#40
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When I learned Chinese as a child I was taught the strokes first. They don't spend a lot of time on those though, since they are so easy. As for different combinations, well I'm sure we also have millions of combinations from the 26 letters don't we? Most likely it feels harder for a westerner because it is a entirely different way of thinking.

I agree that there are much more complications into Chinese. However there is one good thing for it. Chinese doesn't have tenses. You don't know how hard for me to grasp the correct tenses when I started to learn English.

	18-10-2004 22:04									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I agree it is distasteful but if you are going to honor all members of the military who died during the war then everyone's name should be on it. It's kind of pointless and unproductive to play politics about it decades later.

Can I ask you again if you think Hitler should be honored as well?

	18-10-2004 22:22									#42
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quote: I agree it is distasteful but if you are going to honor all members of the military who died during the war then everyone's name should be on it. It's kind of pointless and unproductive to play politics about it decades later.

the war criminals in question didn't die during the war. most of them committed suicide after the war or were executed.

interestingly enough, there weren't any protests until those war criminals' names were added... decades later.

	18-10-2004 22:26									#43
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quote: When I learned Chinese as a child I was taught the strokes first... I agree that there are much more complications into Chinese. However there is one good thing for it. Chinese doesn't have tenses. You don't know how hard for me to grasp the correct tenses when I started to learn English.

I have no idea why I wasn't taught the strokes first... could be that I was, but I didn't pay attention. Happens when you're a kid.

Big difference is probably that I was taught Korean and English, not Chinese and English, so I learned how to write Korean the usual way, and the Hanja... since there's not as big a need for it... I was taught how to use the dictionary instead.

Overall, I think the grammatical structure of the CJK languages, although they're all different, are more elegant than english.

	18-10-2004 22:32									#44
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China vs. Japan?

You can't get kung pao chicken at a Japanesse restaurant.

You can't get sushi at a chinesse restaurant.

need I say more?

China is full of communist bastards

Japan is full of stressed out employees

China was full of communist bastards

Japan was full of stressed out Samurais

China produced Kung Fu

Japan produced Ninjas

China has gongs

Japan has giant drums

China dances in paper dragons

Japan dances in techno raves

China eats short grain rice

Japan eats long grain rice



If Kinevils' friend still insists that Japan steals it's culture from China, just change the subject to Korea.

	18-10-2004 22:55									#45
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http://www.lorebrandcomics.com/newtrend.html

	18-10-2004 22:55									#46
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Many of the so-called Japanese "war criminals" were only war criminals because the allies sentenced them to hang. The Allies wanted both to punish Japan and show the Japanese people who was boss. In doing so, they set up kangaroo courts and quickly executed a large number of people who had no connection with the attrocities.

For example, Tomoyuki Yamashita, a so-called "war criminal" was executed for some of the attrocites commited in the Phillipines. Not only did he have nothing to do with these attrocities, but he was outragd by them and actually tried hard to stop them.

So while there were real war criminals in Japan's ranks, this fact should be taken into consideration when discusssing the Yakusuni Shrine.

	18-10-2004 23:03									#47
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while what monkspider says is true, it doesn't change the fact that people such as TOJO Hideki are "honored" there...

	18-10-2004 23:06									#48
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quote: You can't get kung pao chicken at a Japanesse restaurant. You can't get sushi at a chinesse restaurant.

You can't get Korean BBQ at either, nor can you get Stone Pot stews...

quote: China is full of communist bastards Japan is full of stressed out employees

Korea has both!

quote: China was full of communist bastards Japan was full of stressed out Samurais

Korea has both! (Well, they had the Hwarang...)

quote: China produced Kung Fu Japan produced Ninjas

Korea purified and glorified StarCraft.

quote: China has gongs Japan has giant drums

Korea has Poongmul, which is a very rhythmic, faster paced, and very loud percussive and dance thing.

quote: China dances in paper dragons Japan dances in techno raves

Koreans double click to attack and invade opposing bases with their legions of 24-pixel high warriors!

quote: China eats short grain rice Japan eats long grain rice

Korea eats good rice.

Game, Set, Match.
QED

	18-10-2004 23:08									#49
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Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I thought one of the values in Japanese culture is homogeny?

To the point that Japan today, is still one of the most ethnically and culturally homogenous nations in the world. I'm not that knowledgeable about contemporary Japan though, so can anyone correct me, or elaborate on this?

	18-10-2004 23:15									#50
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well, in east asia, and i think japan, there's a saying that goes something like:

"The nail that sticks out is the one that gets hammered down."

	18-10-2004 23:17									#51
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Or the gun always hits the bird sticking his head out.

	18-10-2004 23:18									#52
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Japan and Korea have too many of the same kinds...

	18-10-2004 23:18									#53
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Well, if I'm correct then, I must say that Japanese value of absolute homogeny is one of the less flattering aspects of its culture, so to speak.

	18-10-2004 23:20									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Japan and Korea have too many of the same kinds...

Makes you wonder who has stolen whose culture ...

	18-10-2004 23:20									#55
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It might be less flattering, but it is very flattening... ! HAHA!

Sorry, that pun doesn't really work at all, does it?

	18-10-2004 23:21									#56
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quote: Makes you wonder who has stolen whose culture ...

er, by that i meant that they're not exactly, ah, diverse.

but, of course, it's the japanese who took a lot from korea early on... these days, it's harder to say.

i mean, in the modern era, with some of their notions of how capitalism and the corporation are supposed to work, one would think that japan exerted a bit of influence...

more so when one considers that some of the largest chaebol got their start during the occupation.

whose japanese leaders, mind you, perpetrated war crimes and many of whom are now honored at yakusuni shrine...

	19-10-2004 00:13									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed It might be less flattering, but it is very flattening... ! HAHA! Sorry, that pun doesn't really work at all, does it?

Try better next time.

	19-10-2004 00:41									#58
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"Japan is just a poor copy of China..."
" What about Yoko Matsugane?"

	19-10-2004 00:44									#59
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there's always battle royale, morning musume, audition, smap...

	19-10-2004 01:53									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun "Japan is just a poor copy of China..." " What about Yoko Matsugane?"

Those CANNOT be real