18-10-2004 18:35									#1
	In Defence of Japanese Culture Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Okay, hope I chose the right forum for this. I figure Poly to be the most polyglot forum I visit

The dope is this: I have a really annoying acquaintance who I've been seeing too much of recently. The problem is that he's a mental sinophille and a miserable nippophobe. At every damn opportunity, he curses Japan. Even when we're talking about something else entirely.
eg:

Me: Did you see the new cafe in town?
Him: I don't go to cafes in case they have sushi on their menues. I fooking hate the Japanese. When I was in Beijing all the Japanese bars were empty because everybody hates them. They stole their food from China.... (and so on)
Me: You drive a Mitsubishi, you moron.

To be fair, he's mental. But it's really getting on my nerves. His line of argument is basically this: the Japanese don't have a culture of their own. They stole their warrior ethics, food and art from ancient Chinese Dynasties. On and on he goes. While my only (weak) line of defense is that Japan is more importantly culturally (now) in the West.

So, he's mental... and wrong I assume. But what can I do to counter his arguments? Apart from the obvious by telling him to shut up!

I need concrete examples and refutations of why he's talking a load of Nippo-phobic bollocks. Can any of you wierd and wonderful guys help me?

	18-10-2004 18:38									#2
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You gotta love anime tentacle rape porn.

	18-10-2004 18:39									#3
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I really liked Japan when I was there though I've never been to China. I have been to Korea and Thailand and I'd have to say I liked Japan a bit more then either of those countries. Japan is just so clean and orderly compared to the rest of Asia I've been to plus I love the way Japanese women dress. They get dolled up even when they're just going to the corner store.

	18-10-2004 18:40									#4
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quote: Originally posted by pchang You gotta love anime tentacle rape porn.

The sad thing is I've actually seen this.

	18-10-2004 18:44									#5
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I'm also a fan of Japan.

I'd say that Japan has more culture and their own culture than most of us in here.

	18-10-2004 18:55									#6
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Japanese cultural products own Asia. What is your friend smoking?

	18-10-2004 18:56									#7
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I'm adequately impressed with Japanese culture. In some cases, I find it to be cooler than the culture of Australia, or even America.

Sure there are some aspects of their culture that are a bit off, but every culture has a dark side.

	18-10-2004 19:13									#8
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Japanese don't spit much

	18-10-2004 19:16									#9
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Its not entirely incorrect to say that Japan's roots are deep into China. However, those initial migrations occurred over 500 years ago. That is more than enough time to develop a unique culture.

If Japan doesn't have a unique culture either does any country in North, Central, or South America. Scratch off a long list of countries founded recently (i.e. Israel, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, etc.)

	18-10-2004 19:25									#10
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Does the guy think the US has culture? They haven't been along that long, and most of their culture is derived from emigrants cultures.

	18-10-2004 19:27									#11
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Knevil's friend is smoking crack.

EK: You could point out how the Japanese use Kanji and the Chinese don't plus you can talk about the superiority of Japanese Katanas over Chinese period weapons. Then you can talk about how Japan was a modern industrialized society with full health care, civil rights, and democracy when the Chinese communists were still imprisioning people for "thinking bad thoughts" and starving tens of millions of people to death. That might get him thinking.

	18-10-2004 19:43									#12
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Your friends hatred may be rooted rather deeply, perhaps even from his childhood. Sometimes this kinds of hatred would not be easily changed by logically arguments.

I guess you could try telling him that although Chinese and Japanese cultures have the same root they have developed into two different distinctive cultures. And that is a good thing instead of a fact that warrants hatred.

	18-10-2004 19:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal I'm adequately impressed with Japanese culture. In some cases, I find it to be cooler than the culture of Australia, or even America.

Now if that isn't 'damning with faint praise', I don't know what is!!

	18-10-2004 20:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Now if that isn't 'damning with faint praise', I don't know what is!!

Really? How is it that I'm 'damning with faint praise'?

	18-10-2004 20:58									#15
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Remind him he's in Britain, another country that doesn't have it's own culture.

	18-10-2004 21:02									#16
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explain to him that he drives a mitsubishi.

which is a second-string car in japan.

======

also explain to him that he should be thankful he's not one of the millions of crazy white people who wishes they were japanese, and worships the ground the japanese walk on.

however, also explain to him that his japanophobia would have done much better for him in american pacific life, 1940s.

	18-10-2004 21:04									#17
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quote: You could point out how the Japanese use Kanji and the Chinese don't

well, the Chinese don't use Kanji, but they use actual characters... which Kanji are, only given a few extra pronunciations...

i think what you mean is that the Japanese use kana, or an actual syllabic writing system, whereas the Chinese are still stuck with an unwieldy, even if it is graceful, logographic writing system.

	18-10-2004 21:04									#18
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Hey perhaps you could choose another technique. Pretend you totally agree with him. Say with your most extremem enthusiasm that you want to kill everyone of them. See if that will shock him.

... I know I'm getting insane again now.

	18-10-2004 21:10									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Snowflake Hey perhaps you could choose another technique. Pretend you totally agree with him. Say with your most extremem enthusiasm that you want to kill everyone of them. See if that will shock him. ... I know I'm getting insane again now.

I've tried that, but he still goes on and on and on.. oh god I want to kill him

Thanks for the advice everyone, but I'm specifically interested in counter-arguements. I utterly agree that he's speaking bollocks, but I need examples:

"Japan is just a poor copy of China..."
" What about xxx"

You guys fill in the blank

	18-10-2004 21:10									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: You could point out how the Japanese use Kanji and the Chinese don't well, the Chinese don't use Kanji, but they use actual characters... which Kanji are, only given a few extra pronunciations... i think what you mean is that the Japanese use kana, or an actual syllabic writing system, whereas the Chinese are still stuck with an unwieldy, even if it is graceful, logographic writing system.

Except in the comics section. There, Chinese uses a syllabic writing system.

EK: Anime tentacle rape porn definitely qualifies for your purposes....

	18-10-2004 21:12									#21
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Actually, Japanese worship white people, particularly Usians. As I pointed out before, after the Meiji Restoration, a period of rapid industrialisation followed, making Japan the strongest country in Asia. After defeating Tsarist Russia in battle, the Japanese superiority was firmly reinforced. They no longer considered themselves to be Asians, but superior to the rest of Asia.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with Japanese culture itself mostly. There are of course messed up bits, like treating the emperor as a god and being absolutely obedient to him. Then there is this bit about Japnese politicians worshipping war criminals.

	18-10-2004 21:17									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin EK: You could point out how the Japanese use Kanji and the Chinese don't...

Dude, Kanji are Chinese. More specifically, they are borrowed Chinese characters.

kan = han (Chinese)
ji = character

	18-10-2004 21:19									#23
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it's a well-known fact that the japanese wish they were white...

but ur, have you been to any anime conventions here in america? the sheer number of white people wishing they were japanese would make your brain dash itself on the rocks of some deserted battle royale island...

	18-10-2004 21:20									#24
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kanji (japanese) == hanja (korean) == hanzi (chinese, but i've never heard anyone actually use this term...)

	18-10-2004 21:24									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cube i think what you mean is that the Japanese use kana, or an actual syllabic writing system, whereas the Chinese are still stuck with an unwieldy, even if it is graceful, logographic writing system.

It's debatable that a logographic system is superior to a phonetic system. Instead of conveying sounds, it conveys meanings directly. Thus, it's more compact and has a higher information density.

	18-10-2004 21:27									#26
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how is it debatable? with fewer written symbols to memorize, it's easier to teach and learn, it's easier to sort words (though the radical system found in dictionaries is brilliant and clever...)...

sure it might be more compact and have higher information density, but that's like saying apple computers are sleeker, slimmer, and prettier. whoopty big ****in' do, if only a few people can actually use it for any real utility.

	18-10-2004 21:35									#27
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Isn't it a shrine to all of the nation's war dead and not just a shrine to war criminals per say? Plus I wouldn't call it worshippng. More like honoring; saying we have not forgotten you and all of that.

	18-10-2004 21:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed how is it debatable? with fewer written symbols to memorize, it's easier to teach and learn, it's easier to sort words (though the radical system found in dictionaries is brilliant and clever...)...

Actually Chinese characters are equivalent to English words. They are made up by limited number of "BiHua" which is correspondence to letters, only there are fewer BiHua than letters. To teach and learn a Chinese character for a Chinese is no more difficult than to teach and learn a English word for a westerner.

Corresponding to misspelling in English, there is "CuoBieZi" in Chinese, with missing or wrong BiHua, while people can still guess its meaning most of the times.

	18-10-2004 21:42									#29
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it is a shrine to the nation's war dead, per se.

there is a book there, that lists all the names.

a few years ago, somebody went into the yakusuni shrine and added the names of the war criminals--and since they can't be removed, war criminals are now honored there as well.

naturally, this causes consternation and displeasure among those nations most directly abused by the japanese war criminals, korea and japan.

i think it's understandable that even if good war heroes are honored, you'd take issue that the person who said it was ok to infect your countrymen, rape your women, and pillage your nation was being honored alongside them.

it's like honoring dahmer right next to the duke.

	18-10-2004 21:43									#30
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quote: Actually Chinese characters are equivalent to English words. They are made up by limited number of "BiHua" which is correspondence to letters, only there are fewer BiHua than letters. To teach and learn a Chinese character for a Chinese is no more difficult than to teach and learn a English word for a westerner.

is this simplified or traditional written chinese we're talking about?