20-10-2004 12:53									#121
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You can have 'em for all I care, except what we need for infants and seniors. We should be able to scrape up a couple million shots if we deprive the hypochondriacs.

	20-10-2004 12:58									#122
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The arguement goes that you spend your money on defence, which also defends us, while we spend our money on healthcare since we don't have to spend much of anything on defence. See?

I dunno, I suspect that the US and Canada would both avoid invasion just fine if the US drastically scaled back defense spending. All we really need is a navy that is better than that of any possible enemy. That isn't a very high bar to clear in terms of necessary military spending.

	20-10-2004 13:09									#123
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The arguement goes that you spend your money on defence, which also defends us, while we spend our money on healthcare since we don't have to spend much of anything on defence. See?

Unfortunately, I have never seen anything to suggest Canada tricked, instigated, manipulated or forced the US into building that defence to the extent it is today. I have a policeman living near me, but that doesn't make him my b!tch as I didn't influence him into being a cop nor do I influence his daily police duties.

Canada's gain is simply a side effect, much like a fat chick getting horny by watching an orgy or some porn... she's never really involved, but if it makes her happy and she doesn't cause trouble then no one's going to complain.

	20-10-2004 13:12									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I dunno, I suspect that the US and Canada would both avoid invasion just fine if the US drastically scaled back defense spending. All we really need is a navy that is better than that of any possible enemy. That isn't a very high bar to clear in terms of necessary military spending.

Problem is carrying the frieght for everyone else.

Yes, there is enough oil in the Western hemisphere for our own purposes, but that's not the way we are taught to buy and sell. Not to mention the health of major trading partners (Europe, Japan, China).

That means that Middle Eastern oil fields become very important, not because the US needs them, but because everyone needs them.

That leaves effectively you with the bill, since no one else seems willing to pay for the level of defence it would take to ensure the free flow of precious black stuff from the Gulf.

Meanwhile, back in NA, the industrious beaver is building a better health care damn while protected by defence spending that protects not only the continent, but the economic system he depends on.

	20-10-2004 13:16									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo It is strange that canadians see the war of 1812 as a victory of canada over the US while the US views the so called french and indian war as a british victory over the French. It's also interesting that while the french and indian war doesnt seem to have done much to unite the 13 colonies, Canadians report that war of 1812 served to unite them even though both wars occured before either was a country and even though both wars were essentially british wars involving british colonies. From whence comes these differing effects I wonder?

The fall of France was instrumental for the founding of the US. As long as France posed a threat to the colony, the colonists needed the home country to defend them.

With the fall of New France, the colonialist cry changed from "Send more redcoats" to "Down with British tyranny".

It's not surprising that the "French and Indian War" did not become part of American national mythology because it doesn't fit the myth that the revolution overthrew a tyrannical, uncaring British occupation.

	20-10-2004 13:20									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew Canada's gain is simply a side effect, much like a fat chick getting horny by watching an orgy or some porn... she's never really involved, but if it makes her happy and she doesn't cause trouble then no one's going to complain.

Dude. You can do better than that, can't you?

Come on. Insult me!

	20-10-2004 13:27									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I dunno, I suspect that the US and Canada would both avoid invasion just fine if the US drastically scaled back defense spending. All we really need is a navy that is better than that of any possible enemy. That isn't a very high bar to clear in terms of necessary military spending.

You're right.

There are some Canadians (usually conservative wanna-be Americans) who think that the US is defending Canada. It is not. The US defends its own self-interest and if that ever meant destroying Canada, the US would do it without a second thought.

The power of the US does not come from its military (which is struggling to control a rag-tag insurgency in Iraq). The US military is not much a threat, except to minor countries.

The power of the US comes from the American economy. If the US wants oil, it buys it. The people who have it, need to sell it and there's no way they can control where it ends up. IF the US wants a government overthrown, it finances a rebel group. And the threat of trade sanctions is far more powerful than any fleet.

	20-10-2004 13:31									#129
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Dude. You can do better than that, can't you? Come on. Insult me!

Why?

	20-10-2004 13:35									#130
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Exactly

	20-10-2004 13:39									#131
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk That reminds me...Britain fumbled our vaccine order, so we're coming north to get yours.

We should have let them ship you loads of contaminated vaccine?

	20-10-2004 13:43									#132
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither

doh, I can't figure which post is the funny stuff.

	20-10-2004 13:46									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo doh, I can't figure which post is the funny stuff.

It's Tingkai and me. We don't talk to each other directly, and threads are more peaceful for it. We just bury innuendo in our posts to send messages.

	20-10-2004 13:46									#134
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH We should have let them ship you loads of contaminated vaccine?

No, you should have shut them down before we put half our eggs in their basket.

	20-10-2004 13:47									#135
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We warned you months ago.

	20-10-2004 13:49									#136
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Since when do we ever listen to warnings?

	20-10-2004 13:50									#137
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk No, you should have shut them down before we put half our eggs in their basket.

So, let me get this straight. Americans are upset by the government of the UK not intervening enough in private enterpise?

	20-10-2004 13:51									#138
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Yep.

	20-10-2004 13:52									#139
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Since when do we ever listen to warnings?

Ok, no problem. Next time we'll just let the dodgy vaccine ship.

	20-10-2004 13:53									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa I demand that Americans vote for Bush

Ya godammed furiner, now you got me mixed up!

	20-10-2004 13:54									#141
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Ok, no problem. Next time we'll just let the dodgy vaccine ship.

	20-10-2004 14:46									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Geronimo The UK certainly didn't start that war and it is an example of a particularly pointless and inconsequential war. The UK was boarding US vessels and impressing US citizens aboard those vessels into their navy. The UK was also enforcing an a blockade of trade between the US and the continent but that by itself would never have been sufficient to inflame passions to the point of war. The UK decided that the impressment was more trouble than it was worth so parliment acted to stop it. Before the news could cross the atlantic the US declared war. Lacking a standing army and a strong navy the US concluded that the only way to fight the war would be to send a number of state militias into canada to fight the brits there. The militias did a really piss poor job of it and the british forces stationed in canada actually managed to repel the militias and pursue them over the border into the US. Later the british navy dropped off some small units of veterans of the Napoleonic war on the undefended US coast where they decisively defeated a hastily assembled group of militias outside washington. They then entered Washington on the heels of the fleeing government and stopped to burn down the public buildings. They got as far as burning down the white house, the capitol and the library of congress before a humongous hurricane whipped in (complete with a few nasty tornados) and did a number on the city and the british forces alike while (somewhat ironically) preventing the spread of the fires. The next day, the demoralised brits started back towards their battered ships and didn't bother with any additional burnings. The next effort was another invasion directed against baltimore but here the british navy was unable to neutralise the fort built to guard the entrance to the port and the british forces on the shore were unable to fight their way toward the city so they retreated back to the ships. The US won several naval engagements on the great lakes but control of the lakes failed to reverse the successful occupation by the british of some of the US forts they had captured after repelling the earlier invasion into Canada. The UK sent diplomats indicating a desire to negotiate an end to the war and soon a decision was made to restore all conditions to the status quo antebellum. So word was sent out that the war was ended and everything would be exactly as it was (with the minor territorial concession that the US would aquire those parts of minnesota which were north and east of the mississippi, nobody knew it contained a huge iron ore deposit at the time). However slow communications still had a role to play and a planned british invasion of New Orleans took place after the end of the war resulting in Andrew Jackson very decisively defeating a much larger force of british Napoleonic war veterans suffering only a couple dozen casualties. A huge lopsided victory that battle certainly was but since it occured after the terms of the peace had already been agreed upon I refuse to see it as evidence that the US 'won' the war of 1812. The war of 1812 was a pointless war that ended when both sides realised just how pointles it was and the only thing the US really got out of it was the Mesabi iron range (which they didn't even know existed at the time). The only huge victory the US won was after the war was over. Anyway I hate to see people make claims about either side kicking the others arse in that pointless muddled and badly fought conflict. Who knows who would have won had the Brits really cared to fight it to the bitter end?

You neglect to mention the effect of American Navy ships and privateers had on British shipping worldwide. We captured over 600 British ships during that war.

	20-10-2004 14:47									#143
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk He just wanted to keep the beaver coming.

Horny devil!

	20-10-2004 14:49									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai They burned the town of Niagara-on-the-lake and surrounding villages in the middle of winter leaving hundreds of families to die in the cold. As a result of these tactics, the Brits responded by burning Washington.

Leaving hundreds of people to swelter in the heat without air conditioning!

	20-10-2004 14:55									#145
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For me, I don't buy that the sack of Washington was retaliation for the burning of York. The two simply do not compare. I would bet that York never registered in London, except maybe as a quaint 'oh look at those colonials' sort of thing.

The sack of Washington was more of a ' guess what, noobs, now we have spare troops and you're gonna get burned out' sort of thing.

It was a 'do you really want to do this?' challenge. The US decided in it's wisdom that they really didn't want to take on the British Empire when Napoleon wasn't around to distract them.

Go figure.

	20-10-2004 15:03									#146
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Very sensible. We'd have kicked their arses.