20-10-2004 08:14									#1
	2144: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Getting ready ................

	23-10-2004 00:24									#2
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Build Orders

Needed for:

• Santiago Citadel (commissioning a Hoplite next turn)
  
• Sector Cratersouth ( ditto)
  
• Rio Grande (rolling out a former next turn)

	23-10-2004 00:31									#3
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Question: IIRC you proposed the plan to send a probe to the Hive while we were considering to attack the Hive first instead of the UoP. Will that probe plan still continue now we've switched Zakharov again?
Advantage: according to your findings we should get DocLoy as our first techsteal. Drawback: vendetta while we'd want to commit our forces somewhere else.

	23-10-2004 00:56									#4
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A second question as I'm not up to date with everything: Is a Crypteia the intended GH production, or is that temporary until we switch to Navy Seals (to be hurried with a OA crawler - or was that suggestion scrapped?)?

A third question regarding boreholes. Where will we build them? Around the SC1-SC2-GH area? Those could use them most as those bases are working mere 2-1-0 tiles. But the only below-1000m non-rocky non-river square in the SC1 & SC2 base radii is (59.19).

How soon after acquiring DocIni do we want to build the MCC (if we want to)? As formers will be busy with boreholes, where can we let crawlers harvest while they're being assembled for SP cashing in?

Suggestion: How about letting the former on (57.19) plant a forest on (60.18)? It would give us a 1-2-2 tile, better than a 2-1-0 under the current circumstances.

Last edited by Maniac on 23-10-2004 at 01:05

	23-10-2004 01:03									#5
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It was undecided - but I'd like to see a Crypteia in each of our coastal bases, freeing up the longstrider probes for real probe work (that was one of the drawbacks - to me - of the Morgan plan - probing on the cheap with infantry probes - they'd have to spend a turn sitting outside a base if there wasn't a road network. At least longstriders can land and steal in the same turn)

So unless we changed to a navy seal fro long-range probing of the Angels or gaians, I'd stick with a Crypteia

	23-10-2004 01:07									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Question: IIRC you proposed the plan to send a probe to the Hive while we were considering to attack the Hive first instead of the UoP. Will that probe plan still continue now we've switched Zakharov again?

So many questions - so few answers

Obviously it'd be great to get Doc Loyalty from yang, but if we are to risk vendetta I think we need to beef up Minas Tirith's forces with a couple of garrison units. That's our most vulnerable spot right now, as no-one else has much of a navy to threaten us elsewhere. Up thru the fungus is where Yang would come.

But I'm thinking maybe we send the Pegasus to pop the three or four pods with Hunter riding shotgun, then pick up the suggested second probe from Rio Grande and head across the waters to Morganland, and infiltrate

	23-10-2004 01:08									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie It was undecided - but I'd like to see a Crypteia in each of our coastal bases, freeing up the longstrider probes for real probe work

Sounds good to me.

quote: So unless we changed to a navy seal fro long-range probing of the Angels or gaians, I'd stick with a Crypteia

We could always wait with building those until after we build the MCC. Than our probes can get anywhere in no time - and they'll have higher morale, especially if we switch to Fundy.

	23-10-2004 01:12									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie But I'm thinking maybe we send the Pegasus to pop the three or four pods with Hunter riding shotgun, then pick up the suggested second probe from Rio Grande and head across the waters to Morganland, and infiltrate

Sounds great. Does that meant SCC Hunter will immediately head back east to the pods without further exploring south?
(Just asking: you never know I have to play the next turn while you're moving to Palm Springs.)

	23-10-2004 01:41									#9
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replies to both of the above:

Good point re: the cruiser probes (we'll get the extended range by 2149 - we don't need the MCC for that. But it will give us a +2 morale (navy) if we do get the SP

I think we should still take the Hunter southeast and south, then turn east and hope there's a neck of land we can pass thru.

And it looks like the next turn'll be with us well before I leave (it went to the Angels today, so will be with Morgan no later than Sunday, and to us by Tuesday)

I can still play the next 2 turns - and onwards - if that is the case, as it'll be in other factions' hands while I'm driving south.

And either I can hang a presend internally for you to download, then turn complete, or I could just still post it (after all, that's what Staff Sergeants do, don't they?)

Staff Sergeant Googlie, Librarian

	23-10-2004 02:41									#10
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Did I read "cruiser probe" somewhere in the above?

We're having a hard time making formers and crawlers. You guys really want to try building cruiser probes?

	23-10-2004 02:43									#11
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I must admit I wasn't thinking of building cruiser probes, but rather probe foils (still 6 MPs with the MCC) or cruiser transports (7 MPs) filled with probe teams.

	23-10-2004 02:46									#12
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They'll be six turns away - by then we'll have crawlers operating at GH and RG, crawling 5 or 6 mins each. To sail the 40 or 50 tiles to Gaialand and Heaven will take 2/3rds the time with cruiser probes than foils. I think it's well worth the investment.

(plus, they are terrific podpoppers, as they can escape IoD's if popping with their first movement point. And probeship podpoppers yield an inordinate amount of energy credits)

	23-10-2004 02:51									#13
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I agree with what your sayin' Googlie... Except for this: If they get blown out of the water - there goes the investment. sea faring probes are expensive and tough to conserve all the way to their mission objectives. Unless you have either a naveal and/or can provide CAP.

Risky, risky. Consider carefully.

	23-10-2004 02:54									#14
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Man it'd be nice to build a bioenhancement center in our coastal bases. With the MCC and running Fundy we'd have instant elite cruisers - 9 movement points!!

(Absent the biocenter, though, the first successful probe action - after the MCC and running Fundy - would see an upgrade to Elite)

And (foils versus cruisers) a diff of 7 versus 9 isn't so bad as 4 versus 6, so maybe the cost effectiveness needs to be studied more closely.

I know in all my games, as soon as a cruiser chassis is available I obsolete all my foils (same cost under Fusion, but prolly a differential under Fission)

	25-10-2004 00:33									#15
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So it looks like we'll see our turn by Tuesday midday (PST) at the latest, so I can still play that one and get it posted by Wednesday night (36 hours-ish) which should be plenty time for us as no trades seem to be pending.

In fact, we should shock the others by playing it in an hour or so. Give the impression that we know exactly what we're doing, are on track, and no messin' around.

	25-10-2004 02:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I know in all my games, as soon as a cruiser chassis is available I obsolete all my foils (same cost under Fusion, but prolly a differential under Fission)

Yeah, there is. Like a few more rows.

quote: In fact, we should shock the others by playing it in an hour or so. Give the impression that we know exactly what we're doing, are on track, and no messin' around.

Fine by me.

	26-10-2004 17:37									#17
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Do we have the possibility to contact Lal and sell him EcoEng for 25c?

	26-10-2004 18:13									#18
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On the theory that Zak will imminently be saying to lal "It is my pleasure ...."?

I have the turn open - I'll see what Lal says (if he'll answer our commlink) - we don't want a tech instead? (He has Biogenetics and Social Psych that we lack)

	26-10-2004 18:33									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie On the theory that Zak will imminently be saying to lal "It is my pleasure ...."?

Indeed.

quote: I have the turn open - I'll see what Lal says (if he'll answer our commlink) - we don't want a tech instead? (He has Biogenetics and Social Psych that we lack)

Ah yes, forgot about that! In that case a tech would be preferable of course! One probe less we run the risk of losing.

	26-10-2004 18:54									#20
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Lal has politely declined to speak to us

	26-10-2004 19:07									#21
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Non contentious moves made in 2144:

• Longstrider probe at GH leapt onto Pegasus which moved 3 tiles due west
  
• Hunter moved southeast 1 tile into the fungus then south 1 tile. Red Fungus Resort now size 3
  
• Invincible moved SE x 4 down coastline to easternmost promontory
  
• R-112 still boxed in - will try next turn to move adjacent to new base Society Grid - that may trigger a "withdraw" request
  
• Hermes moved northeast and east, exposing more of Zak's coastline (but no base radii - will retrace to Vladivostok over these next few turns)
  
• Tomcat-2 moved to 60:18 and commenced tree planting exercises
  
• Tomcat-3 moves onto rolling & rainy tile by SC and commences a farm in that SC/SC2/GH triangle
  
• RG's new former (Tomcat-9?) moved between RG and FB and commenced mining operations
  
• Vladivostok's longstrider moving towards our western coast for rendezvous with the Pegasus. Stopped overnight outside Santiago Citadel and is chatting to Tomcat-2.s crew
  
• Tomcat-6 moved thru Vladivostok to 1 tile north, enroute (next turn) to mine the mineral special NE of Vladivostok
  
• Spartan Kel repositioned to Sparta Command
  
• Minas Tirith former moved onto mineral special tile - will build road/mine/farm for a 2-4-0 supply
  
• Rushed the former at Vladivostok (my mistake last time - only 4 mins needed - 10 ec's - I forgot the base's contribution to the building!!

Attachment: tomcat turnorders.jpg
This has been downloaded 19 time(s).

Last edited by Googlie on 27-10-2004 at 18:22

	26-10-2004 19:22									#22
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Should I ask for 25 ec's - or try for Polysoft? (pity Doc Loyalty didn't come up as onr that I could have asked for instead)

Attachment: yangtrade.jpg
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

	26-10-2004 19:27									#23
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IIRC, if I ask for Polysoft, and he refuses, he'll ask "any other business" rather than hanging up (as he answered my call by requesting the tech) So I could still ask for 25 ec's at that point.

My instincts say go for the tech (more trade bait, and a probe saved for bigger and better things)

	26-10-2004 19:30									#24
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Asked for Polysoft - he wouldn't, but got the "Any other business"

Asked for ec's - give tech in return - wants gene Splicing for 25 ec's, offered Ind Auto - he accepted (now he might build hab complexes and keep ahead of Morgan in the pop charts)

Then he hung up. Next turn we might get 25 for GS from him (Gaians still embargoed, but fat chance he'd talk to them)

	26-10-2004 19:54									#25
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Hmm - interesting.

The AI put our new worker at Fort Buster on the 2-1-1 tile that Tomcat-1 is working, and that 1 energy was enough to advance Doc Init by a year.

ETA now is 2148!!

	26-10-2004 20:24									#26
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Some more thoughts as i look at the open turn:

Zak has no probe teams, so Vladivostok is pretty safe for the time being from infiltration

For Hermes to return to Vladivostok, pick up the probe, and make contact with the uni coastline southwest of university base would take 6 turns, so our next stolen tech from Zak would be in 7 turns, 2151

If I send that longstrider to our coast west of Sector Craterwest, he'll be there in 3 turns, and so could the Pegasus (in that seafungus tile in our most westerly bay)

2 turns later we've infiltrated Morgan (attack his probe with our Veteran who'd hoof overland from Vladivostok, and infiltrate with the Disciplined that's currently in Pegasus)

I'd say it's a go. I've sent the Longstrider on his way. Currently he's disrupting the crew of Tomcat-2 just outside Citadel.

Last edited by Googlie on 26-10-2004 at 20:32

	26-10-2004 21:08									#27
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Here's the midturn with some of the formers' moves completed and the naval units (except for Hermes - if we go with my suggestion of sending longstrider to Morganland, then maybe hermes could explore some of the Uni coastline, and that way I'll get the infiltration jigsaw map completed)

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2144midturn.zip
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	26-10-2004 22:52									#28
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The veteran probe team plan sounds good. One question, would we already have researched DocIni by the time we can infiltrate Morgan? I was thinking that after we research DocIni and we notice our research cost rises dramatically, we could perhaps say "to hell with it" (=research) and lower our labs spending back to 30%, and change our SE politics to Fundamentalist. That would:
a) Significantly increase our chances to infiltrate Morgan on our first try - that veteran probe would become elite, no?
b) give us a morale boost, which is useful for the UoP invasion. It'll change Shinsengumi from commando to elite, and if we decide to build more units in SC2, they'll start as commando, immediately monolith-upgradable to elite.

	26-10-2004 23:39									#29
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Oooooh. Fundie. We could abandon tech entirely for a while, build up on what we have and just probe away what we need. I do like the sound of it And anything to make Shinsengumi the elite it is

Fundie-Planned-Power ?

	27-10-2004 01:36									#30
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Answer re Doc int - yes, we'll now have that in 2148 (4 turns)

Pegasus will pick Longstrider up in 2147, and will be ready to pounce at Vander Eudaimonics in 2149, so changing in 2148, right after we get Doc Init, would do the trick.

Question (and I''ll scenario test it if no-one knows for sure):

When a probe meets a probe defender on the second movem,ent point, and is successful at killing it, does it then get the array of covert ops choices that same move, or does it sit outside the base for a whole turn?

(If the latter, then Morgan will see our probe right outside his door and will know his defender probe got gobsmacked by us.)

Not good

G.