25-10-2004 19:57									#91
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Surprisingly, no. I am far, far more worried about the growing influence of a death cult over the Republicans, othewise know as premillenial dispensationalists. They can't wait for Armeggadon and are willing to bring it about. What's a little war of occupation compared to these people with their finger on the button?

	25-10-2004 19:58									#92
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He's not listening to you people in any meaningful way that I can see. Why do you insist on beating your head against an obvious brick wall.

well i'm trying to get my head around the horror that appears to be rearing its ugly head under a fairly un-concerned pro-republican reaction.
I actualy want one of you to set my mind at ease and give me some proof that things are not as bad as they now seem to me(and others)........please

And at Che re your last post - what is it with the republican party and its attraction to 'death worshipers' (i guess they and the Neo-cons could have something in common )????

dont let the republicans get into power again, at least not until you all give them a make over or something.

	25-10-2004 20:09									#93
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The neo-cons and the PDs have an alliance of convenience around Israel. NCs tend to be Jewish (but aren't always), and strong supporters of Israel. Israel figures strongly in the PDs apocalypse myths, so they feel a need to protect it until the Lord calls them home.

As far as I'm concerned, the neo-con ideology is actually one of the better pro-capitalist ideologies running around. At least they're pro-democracy and willing to try and change the world for the better.

The simple fact is, the NCs don't have total control over American foriegn policy and have to make deals with the RealPolitik people who've run our foreign policy since the late '30s. This is why we still have a working relationship with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, despite the fact that "rogue" elements in both governments are responsible for the 9/11 attacks in part. At best, the NCs provided some ideological cover for the people who wanted to go into Iraq for other reasons.

	25-10-2004 20:29									#94
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Surprisingly, no. I am far, far more worried about the growing influence of a death cult over the Republicans, othewise know as premillenial dispensationalists. They can't wait for Armeggadon and are willing to bring it about. What's a little war of occupation compared to these people with their finger on the button?

Please tell me you're in one of those Amsterdam coffeshops with internet access

	25-10-2004 20:30									#95
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@Che :

ok thanks for taking time to at least explain to me some of the inner background of what makes the american political system tick

And i just hope you can appriciate my concerns over the things i've expressed in this thread so far, and dont just dismiss it because you might not like what i'm saying.

As the next two instalments of the documentary come out, i'll be offering more write ups on what its saying. I am not someone who likes propaganda for the sake of it, and if the documentary starts to smell like it has its own hidden agenda i will say so.
But from the first one it was really just exploring the rise of two ideologies that explain where we are now. It didnt seem too bad on the propaganda front, thats what has gotten me all political on a site i usualy come to to discus games.

Still i need the issues over freedom of the individual, true democracy and not spreading wars to take over the world addressed, before i can feel satisfied that a real injustice isnt going on in america as we type

	25-10-2004 20:36									#96
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quote: At best, the NCs provided some ideological cover for the people who wanted to go into Iraq for other reasons.

Yep, after all the reason for the Iraq war died, you had the neo-con reason of getting rid of a brutal dictator and bringing democracy to Iraq (the only reason I did and still do support the war) as a fall back.

	25-10-2004 20:37									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Please tell me you're in one of those Amsterdam coffeshops with internet access

You know, people love to laugh at our insane right-wing Christians when they do stuff like ban evolution from schools. But as soon as you point out these people are looking forward to the destruction of the world, all of a sudden you're a hippie.

	25-10-2004 20:40									#98
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"To live in fear is to be a slave".

"Fear is the mindkiller".

Bear these in mind and you don't need a Brit documentary to tell you what's going on.

Personally I refer to news programmes as either "Happy Hour" or "The Dead and Alive Show".

	25-10-2004 20:41									#99
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I just have serious difficulty believing it, Che. Because it's so insane. My brain can't handle it.

-Arrian

	25-10-2004 20:52									#100
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It's not like it's a secret conspiracy or anything, Arrian. They are quite open with their beliefs. If you want to know what these people believe, all you have to do is follow the New York Times best seller list. I assume you've heard of the Left Behind series? While the series itself is fictional, it is a novalization of the beliefs of a rather large segment of American Christianity.

Interestingly, their core beliefs have no sanction in the bible, but rather come from the prophecies of a Scottish preacher in the 1830s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism

These are the Americans the whole world should fear.

	25-10-2004 21:08									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If neo-conservatism favours democracy, this trait is certainly not backed by neo-cons in action. I didn't realize that Bill Kristol was elected President . Many neo-cons were trying to persuade Bush (who isn't really a neo-con) to take out Saddam from before 9/11. It wasn't for the oil (that's interest based politics), but to take out a brutal dictator.

If they did that for a humanitarian cause, my question is (you probably knew this was coming) why didn't they go fix various countries that require fixing more desperately, such as Congo, Somalia, Ethiopia, etc?

	25-10-2004 21:13									#102
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Education by wikipedia Building a better communist for tomorrow.

	25-10-2004 21:16									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger If they did that for a humanitarian cause, my question is (you probably knew this was coming) why didn't they go fix various countries that require fixing more desperately, such as Congo, Somalia, Ethiopia, etc?

Because the administration is dominated by realist thinkers and you need to appeal to them as well.

	25-10-2004 21:17									#104
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Education by wikipedia Building a better communist for tomorrow.

Considering you're an atheist, you might want to consider paying attention. The people trying to take over the GOP have as little use for you as they do for me.

	25-10-2004 22:13									#105
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Don't put me in the same group as you. Last I checked when Republicans reach out to voters they don't ask if they're Christians or not. Typical tactic of liberals is to appeal to people's irrational fears, but it doesn't work on the educated. It's why Demoncrats go into urban, low income areas and recruit people to vote because all they hear is "The racist republicans want to kill black people" and they don't know any better. In reality it's the Democrats who are racist. http://www.stentorian.com/politics/plantatn.html

	25-10-2004 22:24									#106
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight Don't put me in the same group as you.

You mean intelligent people?

quote: Last I checked when Republicans reach out to voters they don't ask if they're Christians or not.

Do you think the dispensationalists care whether you're a Republican or not? Not everything in this world boils down to Republicrat versus Demipublican. The fact that there are very scary people in the same party as you doesn't mean they have the same interests as you. As far as they are concerned, you will be one of those destroyed when the Tribulation occurs, just like me.

	25-10-2004 22:41									#107
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quote: You mean intelligent people?

All kidding aside, I find it sad to think that some people on these forums are so consumed by hate that they wouldn't even share a beer with someone on the other side of the aisle. That's not healthy.

	25-10-2004 22:46									#108
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Beer!

	25-10-2004 22:48									#109
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The great equalizer!

Except for JohnT (he's allergic) and Ben Kenobi (who I'm going to assign the stereotype of teetotaller, even though I have no idea of his stand on the issue ), who doesn't like beer?!

	25-10-2004 22:51									#110
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I'll bet ML doesn't like beer, because commies drink beer.

	25-10-2004 22:54									#111
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Damn commie beer!

Hey, I think most people can put all other worries aside when beer is around!

	25-10-2004 22:54									#112
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Beer

	25-10-2004 22:56									#113
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Lietuvan beer

	25-10-2004 22:57									#114
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Btw, are there any good Commie beers?

	25-10-2004 22:58									#115
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Not any more, used to be though. No European commies left to make beer, and Asian commies are like Asian capitalists when it comes to beer making, terrible.

	25-10-2004 23:03									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Btw, are there any good Commie beers?

If Belarus counts as commie, they sometimes end up making some good stuff. After all, their largest breweries were built by foreign investors and THEN nationalised gotta love Lukasheko style

	25-10-2004 23:12									#117
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Ah, Belarus... a pimple on the ass of the former USSR .

	25-10-2004 23:23									#118
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My drink of choice is Vodka.

	25-10-2004 23:27									#119
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COMMIE! RUSSIAN LOVER!

	25-10-2004 23:29									#120
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You fool! You blew your cover!



I admit it. ML was a secret commie plot to make conservatives look stupid.