21-10-2004 21:33									#1
	How important is CDF for us? Remove this text

I would ask all members to post their opinion on value of the CDF SP, which Spartans are concerned we will have as a result of possible tech trades.
I think that CDF's value does rise a bit, since chop'n'drop tactic has been disabled somewhat (attacks on bases cannot be conducted by choppers) so having reinforced bases is a good thing.

	21-10-2004 21:54									#2
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Posting my response from the .Spartan Contact Thread:

quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory I never valued the CDF very highly.....

Normally I would be right there with you on the CDF, but allow me to speculate under the circumstances. Consider the fact that we have two, maybe three big prober factions: Angels, Morgans, and Spartans are likely to go Fundy during war. Assuming we plan on building enough PDs to justify the expense(EDIT: 6 PDs would pay for it) , it would make sense to build the CDF in a central base to prevent probe teams from destroying our PDs. This could be especially important if the Spartans go to rover rush.

Of course I have no MP experience, so I don't really know. Just something to chew on.

	21-10-2004 22:11									#3
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What a goofy request. Evidently they fear trying to batter through a perimeter defense since it sacks any effort of a momentum player (eg - a game where there are two Hives, their worst nightmare).

Note - if they have peaceful intent they will not care if we build CDF or not. It makes me suspicious of their motives.

How we play this depends on how we view politics, and whether we want to be Machievellian or not. If we do, promise them anything they want to hear - then do what we want. If we want to be honorable (which is what I would prefer) I'd suggest we get a similar significant concession from them, like technology to PROVE their good faith. Otherwise we're giving up a powerful tool for nothing.

The CDF is very good against low tech momentum players since it makes plasma proof against a impact rover, and make synth competative (along with base defense and sensor bonus).

	21-10-2004 22:34									#4
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I don't fear a rover rush from the Spartans because of the distance involved, and the rough terrain on the way. To use rovers against us, the Spartans would need to have an invasion fleet and drop it on our shores, and then move it in without our notice. I'd greatly prefer to counterattack incoming forces than defend against them. We'll want probe defenses at every periphery base anyway, and targetting a perimeter defense with a probe team is quite difficult when other facilities remain.

	22-10-2004 00:18									#5
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I suspect Spartans do have Flexibility for some time - they probably can hit two factions - Morgans and us. I am afraid that they might be preparing for a blitzkrieg in near future against one of factions. Lately, I find their behavious too suspicious (particulary Maniac, titling himself leader of 'proGaian wing' and taking helm of negotiations). It is like they are trying to make us believe they are our friends. Although they cannot launch offensive soon, I can deduct from personalities in their team that all their strategy is based on attempt to attack unsuspecting someone else to obtain their technologies. No wonder they've found a Spartan team. I oppose agreeing to giving them CDF, unless they give us great concessions - like free techs and credits in order to demonstrate their goodwill. Also, they are trying to sell Flex to both us and Angels.
I believe we should start slowly building up relations with Angels - in order to have them ready as ally one day - Spartans may be trying to turn us one against other in their bid for power - and we must prevent that possiblity.

	22-10-2004 00:39									#6
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The Spartans have 17 pop right now, compared to our 13 + 2 pods, the Angels' 13, and the Morganites' 12. It doesn't look like they've been focusing on military buildup from that, unless they've conquered some of Yang's cities which, based on population trends, looks unlikely.

I'm sure they've had Flexibility for a bit, but even so, they'd have a ways to go at 3 tiles/turn. To compensate, we can construct sensor nets along the road in progress to the Hive, and north of the Uranium Flats. If I were them, I would consider it foolish to spend over 10 turns preparing and moving an invasion force into an unexplored continent against an uninfiltrated opponent who is known to have mind worms.

	22-10-2004 00:49									#7
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I do not believe that they intend to hit us, they might be preparing to attack one of AIs, or Morgans, hardening their troops, in 10-20 turns. With C'n'D tactic disabled, CDF is very valuable for larger empires (as ours shall be), especially later, and this is what they are probably afraid of - indestructible walls at every base (they would need large amounts of needles to knock out defense with PDs).

	22-10-2004 12:36									#8
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So if we wanted it, would we definitely be able to get CDF before them (or anyone else)? Although they may be far off now, CDF will matter for a long term in a game with the Spartans around. It's not a personal fave of mine, but a SP like this would mean we could divert that much more to better pursuits, at least before Needles.

What are the other alternatives of things we could get soon/now if not the CDF?

	22-10-2004 13:52									#9
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quote: I believe we should start slowly building up relations with Angels - in order to have them ready as ally one day - Spartans may be trying to turn us one against other in their bid for power - and we must prevent that possiblity.

That's what I was trying to say a week ago!

	23-10-2004 21:45									#10
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You realise that the Spartans may want the CDF for themselves, not just "we don't want you to have it?" They could be facing a lot of enemies themselves.

	25-10-2004 18:22									#11
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quote: You realise that the Spartans may want the CDF for themselves, not just "we don't want you to have it?" They could be facing a lot of enemies themselves.

Yeah, especially if they want to rover-rush - it's best for damaged rovers to take rest in fortified base..
And MUCH harder to take it back