25-10-2004 20:26									#31
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Disturbing yes, However, the article never mentions when they went missing. Apparently it is a discrepancy of the time last inventoried by IAEA and now and could have been moved in the run up, as well as the war pahse, or the occupational phase.

	25-10-2004 20:50									#32
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This is news?

Saddam spends billions on munitions, gets invaded, everybody wants a bit of their cash back... so they loot the weapons.

350 tons of ordanance between 20 million people? That's a very conservative estimate.

Hell, they paid for it, why shouldn't they have it?

	25-10-2004 21:07									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Disturbing yes, However, the article never mentions when they went missing. Apparently it is a discrepancy of the time last inventoried by IAEA and now and could have been moved in the run up, as well as the war pahse, or the occupational phase.

The site was checked in the last round of inspections in 2003- so that gives us a short timeline for when this stuff would go missing.

Why did it take a year or more for the IAEA to get an idea? They should have been let back into the country come the fall of Saddam's regime.

	25-10-2004 21:09									#34
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According to all those ppl who say that Saddam didn't have WoMD all them explosives must never of existed... So how did they get stolen?

	25-10-2004 21:13									#35
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MIlitary high explosives are not a WMD, nor were the Iraqis banned from using it- but because they are dual use, they had to be monitored.

	25-10-2004 21:15									#36
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Now they've encouraged so many more people to become terrorists it's good they are letting them arm themselves.

	25-10-2004 21:16									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Japher According to all those ppl who say that Saddam didn't have WoMD all them explosives must never of existed... So how did they get stolen?

How the hell are conventional explosives WMDs? That's just idiotic.

	25-10-2004 21:25									#38
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The irony is that these explosives were locked away safe from terrorists before we invaded; due to this rank incompetence, we've helped to potentially disseminate 380 tons of HMX and RDX to terrorists.

This is reason enough alone to remove those retards that make up this Administration from power.

quote: 350 tons of ordanance between 20 million people? That's a very conservative estimate.

380 tons of high explosives explosives taken from a single site.

	25-10-2004 21:26									#39
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quote: used to demolish buildings, produce missile warheads and detonate nuclear weapons

quote: HMX and RDX, could be used to produce bombs strong enough to shatter airplanes or tear apart buildings. The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the material of the type stolen from Al Qaqaa, and somewhat larger amounts were apparently used in the bombing of a housing complex in November 2003 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and the blasts in a Moscow apartment complex in September 1999 that killed nearly 300 people.

Not too rediculous.

	25-10-2004 21:29									#40
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Yes it is rediculous. That's for the trigger of the nukes, not the nukes itself. Not WMD by any half-way sane definition.

quote: The explosives could also be used to trigger a nuclear weapon, which was why international nuclear inspectors had kept a watch on the material, and even sealed and locked some of it. The other components of an atom bomb - the design and the radioactive fuel - are more difficult to obtain.

	25-10-2004 21:29									#41
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Can not you traitor-crats see that by allowing the explosives to get stolen, Dear Leader Dubya has made us safer from terrorism?

*hugs the radioactive chunk of the nedaverse he found earlier today*

	25-10-2004 21:31									#42
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When high explosives are not freely left to be looted, the only people with high explosives will be the terrorists!

	25-10-2004 21:34									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Not too rediculous.

As was said, yes it is. As I said, these are considered dual use equipment, and hence why they were under inspection, but they were not banned items, just like how Iraq could have missiles but with limited ranges.

	25-10-2004 21:36									#44
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i like the name of the place: Al Qaqaa.

It's like what this report is. A load of caca. No explosives were stolen at all. Those explosives, had they actually ever been there, would have been weapons of mass destruction.

You traitors need to shut up and die.

	25-10-2004 21:37									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo When high explosives are not freely left to be looted, the only people with high explosives will be the terrorists!

Only when everyone can make bombs is anyone safe from bombs

	25-10-2004 21:38									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Not too rediculous.

Nukes are detonated with a conventional explosive. The concusive force of the conventional exposion compresses the nuclear material which sets off a chain reaction. Without nuke matieral, though, they do not constitute WMDs.

	25-10-2004 21:44									#47
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast...ives/index.html

quote: A senior administration official told CNN that national security adviser Condoleezza Rice was notified about the missing weapons about a month ago. Iraq Survey Group inspectors are investigating, the official said. The discovery was not made public sooner because standard intelligence practice is not to let the enemy know such information, the official said.

This **** is hilarious. Supposedly, this wasn't made public sooner so that the enemy wouldn't know that they looted 380 tons of explosives.

	25-10-2004 21:48									#48
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I am well aware how a nuclear weapon is operates and is made, and I think dismissing the presence of dual use materials as possible indication of a nuclear arms program by Saddam is idiotic. Not just this material, but all the other materials found in the past that were only "parts" of WoMD and not the WHOLE thing. Men have been convicted of lesser crimes for far less evidence.

	25-10-2004 21:51									#49
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yeah, like bill clinton and other liberals, whose fault it is that the entire country has gone to hell in a handbasket.

	25-10-2004 21:53									#50
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These clearly aren't for nukes. Assuming they were, why would he produce at least 380 tons of it (where less than a pound was enough to take down the Lockerbie flight)? Exactly how many nukes was he planning to make? Why would he bother producing that much, without having any fuel production capabilities whatsoever? Why would he bother producing that much even if he had or was close to having fuel production capabilities?

Do you honestly believe what you're writing?

	25-10-2004 22:01									#51
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quote: These clearly aren't for nukes.

Clearly you are blind.

quote: Do you honestly believe what you're writing?

I'm not dumb enough to dismiss it without evidence either way. And, I, for one, would rather error on the positive than to be wrong and have some place nuked.

LINK

quote: Mr Straw spoke as the UN nuclear watchdog raised concerns that nuclear materials and equipment had vanished from sites in Iraq, and could be used to make a bomb. In a letter to the Security Council, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said it was concerned about the "widespread and apparently systematic" dismantling of entire buildings that contained specialised equipment with both civilian and military nuclear uses. Satellite images show that the buildings have disappeared, which once housed electron beam welders and high-precision milling machines, said Mohamed El-Baradei, the agency's director. Material such as high-strength aluminium has also vanished from open storage areas. "The disappearance of such equipment and materials may be of proliferation significance," he said

LINK

quote: Well, the invasion that was to make the world “safer” has been proven once more to have made the world more dangerous instead. It now seems that the removal of nuclear materials from Iraq's mothballed nuclear facilities continued long after the U.S.-led invasion and was carried out by people with access to heavy machinery and demolition equipment. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) told the Security Council this week that equipment and materials that could be used to make atomic weapons had been vanishing from Iraq without either Baghdad or Washington noticing. "This process carried on at least through 2003 ... and probably into 2004, at least in early 2004," said a Western diplomat close to the (IAEA), which monitored Iraq's nuclear sites before last year's war. Several diplomats close to the IAEA said the disappearance of the nuclear items was not the result of haphazard looting. They said the removal of the dual-use equipment -- which before the war was tagged and closely monitored by the IAEA to ensure it was not being used in a weapons program -- was planned and executed by people who knew what they were doing. "We're talking about dozens of sites being dismantled," a diplomat said on condition of anonymity. "Large numbers of buildings taken down, warehouses were emptied and removed. This would require heavy machinery, demolition equipment. This is not something that you'd do overnight."

Answer me this; why is it that so many peices of nuclear weapons are being uncovered right after they are stolen? Why are so many peices of WoMD being dismissed as not important as they are missing the rest of the peices (which show up weeks later, with the same dismissal)? Why are all these sites and equipments being looted? What other use for 300+ tons of explosives can you think of that you would need to have privately and without anyone knowing about it?

	25-10-2004 22:05									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I am well aware how a nuclear weapon is operates and is made, and I think dismissing the presence of dual use materials as possible indication of a nuclear arms program by Saddam is idiotic. Not just this material, but all the other materials found in the past that were only "parts" of WoMD and not the WHOLE thing. Men have been convicted of lesser crimes for far less evidence.

Except that Iraq was allowed to use these materials to use in demolishions, or their own allowed military programs.

The equipment used to pasteurize milk can be used in a biological weapons program-should the Iraqis have been banned the ability to pasteurize their milk? That is the point of dual-use materials.

	25-10-2004 22:08									#53
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The point remains: no fuel, no nuke. There's absolutely no evidence that they had fuel production capabalities. This is not a WMD. This is not evidence of WMD's.

quote: What other use for 300+ tons of explosives can you think of that you would need to have privately and without anyone knowing about it?

Conventional weapons, civilian uses. Why bother having that much if you're just planning on using them for nukes. Exactly how many nukes would one be planning on making? I'd bet you could make 10's to 100's of thousands of nukes with that much explosive material.

	25-10-2004 22:11									#54
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quote: This is not evidence of WMD's.

Not alone, but with the evidence of all the other material that has been found since the "end of the war" it does raise some significant questions that should not just be dismissed as you all will hasten to so quickly.

I'm not trying to formulate a conspiracy theory. However, when ALL the materials needed to make a nuclear weapon (ALL, not just some) are found to have existed in Iraq in a short time frame prior to the start of the war it really makes you wonder if there was something sinister going on.

	25-10-2004 22:14									#55
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oops

	25-10-2004 22:16									#56
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No fuel, no nuke. They did not have fuel, so they did not have everything needed to produce a nuke. Period.

As for your first quote, all I could find was high strength aluminum and precision welding and milling machines. Your second one didn't have anything. High strength aluminum, precision welding, milling machines, and explosives aren't all you need to produce a nuke.

Last edited by Ramo on 25-10-2004 at 22:21

	25-10-2004 22:17									#57
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And again, why would you need 380 tons of HMX and RDX to produce nukes? Since I'm too "dumb"/"blind" to figure this out, maybe you could enlighten me.

	25-10-2004 22:21									#58
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quote: Not just this material, but all the other materials found in the past that were only "parts" of WoMD and not the WHOLE thing. Men have been convicted of lesser crimes for far less evidence.

That's like saying that having artillery shells is evidence of WMDs because you could yup nukes or chemical weopons in em.

	25-10-2004 22:27									#59
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quote: Why are so many peices of WoMD being dismissed as not important as they are missing the rest of the peices (which show up weeks later, with the same dismissal)?

Because the pivotal component doesn't exist: fuel for the reaction.

quote: Why are all these sites and equipments being looted?

Unemployment is sky-high (upwards of 50% often). Looting high explosives is a pretty big source of cash, and could feed your family if you have no other source of income. And no one's guarding the sites, so there's no deterrent.

	25-10-2004 22:31									#60
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Incidentally:

quote: Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry charged today that President Bush committed a great blunder and demonstrated "incredible incompetence" by failing to secure tons of explosives in Iraq that are now missing and potentially in the hands of terrorists. Using some of his harshest language of the campaign to condemn his opponent, the Massachusetts senator said the episode shows that Bush has failed "the test of being the commander in chief."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...t25.html?sub=AR