 |
| |
|
|
Spiffor
|
 |
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
" We, French, Finns, Brits, Maltese etc, as we are living in a common market, also live under a common trade policy. And all of our governments are associated in determining that policy, with a power semi-proportional to the population they represent."
I have no problem with this. I think this is good. |
Then what is your problem with these processes being in the hands of a Parliament instead of Governments? If I may remind you, this is the issue this thread is about.
quote:
" Especially the Brits, who consider the EU is very well off as a haggling organization, where every country tries to outsmart the others and get as many advantages as possible."
And IN REALITY it isn't?  |
Of course it is. But the Brits consider the inefficient system of ours is very good. The Federalists (most of them from "True Euro" countries) consider it very bad.
quote:
Then what is it in reality? An intellectual pinky lifting playground for TRUE EUROS to fantasize about new superpower EU, that WILL challenge US and some day outpower it and take control? |
You are confusing two points of view that are unrelated to each other.
On the one hand, you have the question of Europe as a global power or not. Many people (especially in France) have the little Napoleon attitude of wanting to create a European Power that can stick it to the US. However, the main advocate of Europe-Power (De Gaulle) was also adamantly anti-federalism. He believed the European main countries could agree on diplomacy and defense without the need for a pesky organization that would be out of control of individual governments.
On the other hand, you have the question of Europe as a politically integrated entity, where collective issues are handled by collective (supranational) institutions instead of by national governments. Such institutions will not necessarily push for global imperialism. It depends of what the voters want.
quote:
This is the true nature of EURONITES, the worse group of TRUE EUROS. They all hate the US, and they don't see their own actions to have nothing wrong in them, when they would be exactly the same or even worse. When US does it, huge outcry, when we do it, thumbs up and 'you don't understand.. '.. even worse spin doctoring than in the US presidential elections, they should have these guys doing the spinning for them. They keep using the same arguments even after you showed them they are flawed, and seriously argue that for example Paris should have the same representations as Finland as a country, and not only same but bigger. The hypocrism
It's a joke that's what it is. And when you don't agree with it, you point out some flaws, they all get upset about it, cry and blame you of being a nazi, they are nto able to refute the most important points like unequality etc, yet they keep on rolling for the utopia and NOT remove the unequality, and when someone points that out, they're nazis, stupid, anti-europe etc.. yeah,, just remember I'm the dissident here, and hwo EU really works is how EU treats me, not you, but me. US is starting to sound like a paradise at the moment on this issue as well. The future EU has no place for pointing out corruption and unequality. It's equal because THEY SAY IT IS. And if you still disagree, you're a ****ing bastard who wants to ruin it for all. I ask you who am I ruining it? For the ones that are corrupt? So who gives a rats ass? Must be corrupt themselves. HAIL ALL BELIEVERS, bunch of hypocrites who still at this stage of this thread do not acknowledge the unequality, and Spiffor is even trying to say that it's in fact the France for example that is unequal (smaller) than us.. can you serioulsy debate with EURONITES after this? They say well you said something about butty boys you can't be debator either, well my point is serious with the unequality, and you fail to show any kind of basic logic, only proving my point. |
I suppose I am the "Euronite" here. I don't recognize myself in your description at all, but the Paris bit gave me the hint.
If you read my posts, you'll notice that I have neevr said Finland was more powerful in the EU than France. Of course not. However, it is true that one Finnish voter has more political say in Europe than one French voter. There's no way around it. Your vote, Pekka, is worth exactly twice mine. I am not France, you are not Finland. I am a French individual, and you are a Finnish individual... who wields as much power as two French individuals.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
germanos
|
|
behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
At the end of the day he lost his job because he said he believed it was better for women to take care of children then to work. He never stop anybody from working or advocated legislation to force women not to work; he just said he personally believed that was true.
You can disagree with him but to make him lose his job over making a statement of belief is simply immoral and that is what the European left has done. |
(assuming this refers to Buttiglione)
No, he was not hired for the job, which is another situation altogether.
The parliament thought him unfit for the job, as the job requires him to enforce legislation that guards against discrimination on (among others) gender.
They beleived he was not qualified for the job, as they feared conflict of intrests.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pekka
|
 |
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:20
|
|
Yes what Oerdin says, yet everyone is unwilling to solve this problem.
People say federation will solve this problem. I see this as the ultimate evil before THIS problem is solved. Why? BEcause we need to be EQUAL when we enter the federation so we can have a safe start. We won't be going into something like that, the same time being unequal. That's even worse. We need to be going into that thing equal, or we will give ourselves up for blank cheque, and few have shown they are willing to break the rules anyway and be as arrogant as to not even apologize for it to the rest of us. I don't want us to be handed over in the cold night into those hands. We need to be equal first, that IS the demand, and then and only then we can continue to more what the structures etc should be. And no we shouldn't go into further until it is solved, because then this issue will never be solved.
"Just like the mayor of Ylitornio (or its citizens) shouldn't have any power over what happens in Helsinki, and vice-versa.
However, for Finnish matters, the voter from Ylitornio should have a say in how Finland is ruled, just like the voter of Helsinki."
****, I didn't know we were a federation already. Oh no wait.. we're not! We still have national borders. Stop with your croissant eating bigotry, it's insulting and disrespectful. It's not equal if the blue prints and made by few.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pekka
|
|
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:20
|
|
"However, it is true that one Finnish voter has more political say in Europe than one French voter. There's no way around it. Your vote, Pekka, is worth exactly twice mine."
This thinking is logically false.
"You are confusing two points of view that are unrelated to each other."
On the very factual point of view, yes they are unrelated, but in practice they usually connect. If the **** stinks, someone must of taken a crap.
" Such institutions will not necessarily push for global imperialism. It depends of what the voters want."
Yes, but if the starting point is twisted, it is BS. Some of these big euro countries are also big in corrupt behaviour. Why should I trade places with being in the least corrupt place to something that is big in it? I mean you really have to have FAITH if you think we are being treated fairly in the future. The federation can not work if it's based on unequality in the first place. We need to be there influencing the federation as much as every other MEMBER. Not slave or master, but a member. Why are you making such a spectacle of yourselves? I don't see Tony Blair making a spectacle of himself in here, why you have to? YOu want to be the CORE of it, and if we base federation on thinking like that......... it's good to be you, sucks to be me. You're just too close and biased to see otherwise. Heck, you still believe in the underrepresentation of yours.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-10-2004 01:30
|