17-11-2004 01:23									#31
	Got spare money?

"I still say the RL must be before the other stuff. It wll make all the research faster."

I totally agree. RL requires 200 total Reasearch points, and gives you +5 base then +1 per scientist. Even if you put all 8 pop on research, you only get 24, but with RL, you can get the research with 5 scientists. I sometimes consider RL as small auto labs.

	18-11-2004 11:47									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

(1) Races and Empires may be specialized for research, production, espionage, diplomacy, population growth, blitzing, economics, or other strengths.

(2) When choosing a "race", it's important to recognise which picks are in each of these categories:

1. Empire-wide.
2. Race-specific.
3. Homeworld.

One strategy is to maximise the empire-wide benefits, with a view to capturing races with complementary advantages. Those Silicoids, Sakkras, Klackons, Trilarians and Psilons that can give trouble if left alone too long, make valuable new citizens. Put their racial bonuses to work for you in industry, food production or research, or just get those new worlds populated faster.

(3) MOO2 spying and diplomacy are two of its weaker points (compared to MOO1 and Alpha Centauri), but in single-player (it won't work against humans) I've had fun as an empire that maxes out both Spying and Diplomacy by possessing these picks:

Charismatic
Telepathic
+20 Spying
Dictatorship

Telepathic has both diplomatic (+25 to deals) and espionage (+10) bonuses (plus ship and colony capture abilities); dictatorship helps spy defence, and when you eventually get Psionics (and the other morale techs) this government gives the maximum +100% morale boost.

The primary goal with this empire is to get in contact with everyone (the victims) as early as possible, because its espionage rating is so high that this empire can rob the Darloks blind. Its diplomacy is so good that an effective strategy is to sic a few (1 to 4) spies on one rival empire, wait for them to steal a tech, then swap the spies to another target. When a few turns have passed, the earlier victims will have calmed down (because you're so charming), so rob them again!

With these picks, you don't have to rush frantically up the tech tree as usual, because in effect, the other empires are researching for you!

Also, you can exploit your unrivalled diplomatic advantage to trade some of the stolen techs for more technology or money or maybe some planets. Once you have a fleet, bullying stands a better chance of succeeding with this race than with many others.

In war time, this empire's spies can sabotage an enemy's star bases and other vital defences very quickly.

In a Huge galaxy, I find that ownership of about 10 systems suffices for long-term viability for many types of empire. With the above diplo/spy race, that size empire is very comfortable through mid-game.

Oh, and this empire finds it embarrassingly easy to win the popular Vote.

(4) Whatever you do, don't make an Alliance, unless you either (a) are ready to backstab at any time, or (b) absolutely know that you can flourish in a war against everyone else that your potential ally is in contact with - because you will soon have to choose whether to face the galaxy (with a useless ally) or break the alliance. A temporary alliance might be a cheap way to quickly get at some victim across the map.

(5) Research Labs are essential, because in MOO2 technology is vital. You can't afford to fall chronically behind in, for example, shields, armor, engines and computers, otherwise the moment another (Artificial or Natural) player sees you have a small fleet (or calls your bluff when your large navy is pathetic) your fleets will be slaughtered and your colonies stormed. Even a diplo/spy race needs some techs in order to top up its natural advantages.

In most games, no matter what race I play, I aim to get Supercomputers before anyone else. Autolabs are great too, especially once the empire has acquired ten or twenty established colonies.

(6) There's so much more to say about MOO2, but one thing to note when Researching is that the techs vary greatly in value.

For example, Stasis Field is a wondrous (and fairly early) invention: equip a bunch of small fast ships with it and you can quickly put enemy fleets to sleep. Wake one enemy ship at a time and blast it with all you've got, from close range if desired.

The value of a tech can depend entirely on what type of empire you have chosen or what the dominant race is on a colony.

Morale techs do nothing for Unification empires (no matter what varieties of racial populations you have). Pollution techs don't help Tolerant races. Food is useless to Lithovore races.

	20-11-2004 09:24									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

well, i seem to be doing fine. Im playing against only 3 others civs, to make it easier. I got a lead on everyone in pop, tech, buildings, and on all but one in ships. Ive found the orion guardian, but too weak to take it on. I tried attacking a dragon, reloaded Ive gone to war againt the Silicoids, took a star (and planet, with one pop left - which ive assimilated) they made peace, giving me 10% tribute. I demanded and got 5% trib from the Gnolans. I had overbuilt my fleet and started losing money, but im recovering from that. We're in hyperspace flux, so no combat. At some point I will take on the dragon with a larger fleet, to get its excellent planet. Im starting to get the hang of ship design.

Truely an addictive game

	20-11-2004 10:11									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark well, i seem to be doing fine. Im playing against only 3 others civs, to make it easier.

I think it's actually easier with more computer opponents. They keep each other somewhat in check, and they like to colonize for me, research for me, etc.

quote: Truely an addictive game

No kidding. "Just one more turn," and pretty soon you hear birds chirping.

	20-11-2004 10:32									#35
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Playing with 8 players is harder than with 3. They get contacts sooner and trade more and have more of the techs covered and you are more likely to see the stronger races in the game.

The only real danger is to look up at an early turn and find Saks are close and Klacs have found you already. With 3 races and playing advance tech you will start with so many planets you already won.

Interestingly it will kill some of your race types. What good is it to be a tele, if you have so few races and do not make contact for a long time? Now the AI has good start bases and defense.

	22-11-2004 00:37									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Playing with 8 players is harder than with 3. They get contacts sooner and trade more and have more of the techs covered and you are more likely to see the stronger races in the game. The only real danger is to look up at an early turn and find Saks are close and Klacs have found you already. With 3 races and playing advance tech you will start with so many planets you already won. Interestingly it will kill some of your race types. What good is it to be a tele, if you have so few races and do not make contact for a long time? Now the AI has good start bases and defense.

actually one of the three races WAS the Saks, and i stupidly provoked war. Fortunately its far from the opening of the game, but its still been see-saw, largely cause of inexperience. I found out for example how tough a Sak Battle Station was, at it ate my fleet. I then lost a planet to a bunch of battleships. The battleships then died at one of my own better defended planets.

Now theyre coming at one of my best star systems with a Titan.

	22-11-2004 01:57									#37
	Suffering from ads?

BS backed by missible bases and decent armor and missile tech is a handful early in the game. It will be a function of how many ships they can muster until they get good comps and beams.

One titan is not a problem, if you have a base and ground batteries. If you have anything else such as missile base or fighter garrison, they will probably only blockade. Well I am presuming they do not have advanced techs. If they have zort + shields and decent beams/comp, then it could be rough.

Chances are the ship will have too many bombs/fighters and gyros. This means it has to get up close to hurt you and you have time to paste it.

Good luck.

	22-11-2004 22:28									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 BS backed by missible bases and decent armor and missile tech is a handful early in the game. It will be a function of how many ships they can muster until they get good comps and beams. One titan is not a problem, if you have a base and ground batteries. If you have anything else such as missile base or fighter garrison, they will probably only blockade. Well I am presuming they do not have advanced techs. If they have zort + shields and decent beams/comp, then it could be rough. Chances are the ship will have too many bombs/fighters and gyros. This means it has to get up close to hurt you and you have time to paste it. Good luck.

they do have Zortonium armor, and class V shields. Ive managed to destroy or capture several of their ships, but havent been able to stop their gradual progress through my second best star system.

Im playing out the loss, for the sake of learning.

	22-11-2004 23:24									#39
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Could you post the oldest save you have form that game?

	25-11-2004 06:55									#40
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Could you post the oldest save you have form that game?

MOO2 calls saved games .gam, which 'Poly wont accept. I will try renaming to .sav, I trust this wont be a problem.



Ok, I hope this works, this is the first time ive uploaded a file to 'poly.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=7805_Save8.sav

You did say you wanted the oldest, not the LATEST?

	25-11-2004 08:37									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

That works thanks. I should have mentioned that you needed to rename it to .sav, sorry.

	25-11-2004 09:00									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Wow I see you have a hard road to travel in this one. I don't know what the level is, but ...

The race is Demo and Charismatic. No addiional production boost and the -10 to spies that comes with Dem. I guess you will not have to worry about steals as you won't have much to steal.

You have a very poor system with two mediums, one ultra poor and the other radiated. One large that is poor. The worst thing is to not have any pop bonus nor a large HW.

I would rather have unification for 6 pick and add LHW over the Demo.

Anyway with such a small HW it will be hard to generate any production, especially feediing that radiated planet. I would rather that one of the others, they could at least feed themselves.

	25-11-2004 23:56									#43
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ok, it is winnable and I think I have turned the corner on it. I got contact with Saks on T242. They had 10 systems, I had 4. I would have more, but they are just too crappy.

T288 Saks decalre war on me. I had 2 BB and 1 scout. BB had Mass Drivers. I sent those to Audax and destroyed the starbase and the planet. Made OP for Audax.

T295 Centauri destroyed. Third BB joins fleet.
T296 Electra II destroyed
T297 Electra Prime destroyed
T298 Nilus destroyed
T299 Sssla Prime (hw) destroyed they offer tech for peace, NO
T300 Sssla II destroyed, OP enroute to Sssla so I can reach the rest of their planets. Fourth BB to join soon with Phasors.

It will soon be lights out for Saks and they cannot even reach my planets now.

Attachment: t300.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	26-11-2004 01:07									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Saks gone T325 as I was lazy and did not plan for the required OP so I had to sit around a bit.

T333 all Sillies gone and game ends. Sillies did not even muster a ship.

Attachment: save2.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	26-11-2004 09:57									#45
	Support Apolyton

I played it out to a loss - by council. I could have rejected the vote, and perhaps gone on to win, but I didnt want to fight to recoup from some mistakes Id made, or reload and play the whole thing over.

Ive started again, same games specs (human, average difficulty, large and average galaxy, 4 civs, prewarp). Im doing better, and am crushing the Bulrathi, have the Gnolam in tribute, and am moving far ahead in tech.

	26-11-2004 12:58									#46
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I made a log for the early part of the game if you want to see how I did it.

I had not used the Charm trait and was shocked to see all the top leaders I got. I use Repulsive most of the time and do not have it so easy for leaders.

I never did go to Orion, the AI just did not put any fight at all.

	01-12-2004 03:15									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I made a log for the early part of the game if you want to see how I did it. I had not used the Charm trait and was shocked to see all the top leaders I got. I use Repulsive most of the time and do not have it so easy for leaders. I never did go to Orion, the AI just did not put any fight at all.

Thats ok, im improving on my own at this point.

Id forgotten about that charm affects leaders. I get and use quite a few, I didnt realize there are usually fewer in the game.

	01-12-2004 04:04									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I normally only play on impossible, so I had forgotten that the penalties impact. So the lessor traits and planets were offset by the easier level.

How did you like the part where the Saks declared war and I had only two ships. Ten turns later they had lost all planets I could reach amd soon were eliminated.

No one even sent a ship to any planet I had.

The key thing is to have fun, so if you are then it is all good.

	02-12-2004 02:57									#49
	Re: another MOO2 newbie Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I just bought MOO2 (used, $5 US) and installed it.

That may be the best $5 you've spent in a long time.

	02-12-2004 04:01									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I normally only play on impossible, so I had forgotten that the penalties impact. So the lessor traits and planets were offset by the easier level. How did you like the part where the Saks declared war and I had only two ships. Ten turns later they had lost all planets I could reach amd soon were eliminated. No one even sent a ship to any planet I had.

Good comeback. I made some comeback in my game, but not so overwhelmingly. I still have lots to learn about ship design.

	02-12-2004 04:01									#51
	Re: Re: another MOO2 newbie Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by GameGeek That may be the best $5 you've spent in a long time.

Ive more than gotten my moneysworth already

	02-12-2004 19:53									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Good comeback. I made some comeback in my game, but not so overwhelmingly. I still have lots to learn about ship design.

There are threads on ship design that are definitely worth reading. Lots of useful information there.

	03-12-2004 19:04									#53
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

to clarify:

a default Titan design wont come up on the build screen, unless Ive first gone to the Design screen and designed a Titan?

	03-12-2004 21:12									#54
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Yup, you need to have the tech, then choose an existing design and change it. You will be able to choose any class that you know.

I take the scout ship and make it a titan, if I make any titans. They are not needed, but sometimes I will make them for any leader I have.

The main purpose is so I know which ship they are on. It is not as easy to find them with nothing but BB's.

	04-12-2004 02:57									#55
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yup, you need to have the tech, then choose an existing design and change it. You will be able to choose any class that you know. I take the scout ship and make it a titan, if I make any titans. They are not needed, but sometimes I will make them for any leader I have.

Perhaps not needed, but Im only building my first BBs this game (may i use the Navy abbreviations here?) and i doubt that ive designed optimal ones. Im trying get set to take on the guardian, so Id like a couple of Titans, I think.

	04-12-2004 04:04									#56
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Six years in the Navy, so no problem. I refer to Frigates as DE and destroyers as DD, CA for crusiers all the time.

Depending on when I go I will use 5 or 6 BB's to take Orion. More if I have them. I go after getting HEF.

	05-12-2004 09:11									#57
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Six years in the Navy, so no problem. I refer to Frigates as DE and destroyers as DD, CA for crusiers all the time. Depending on when I go I will use 5 or 6 BB's to take Orion. More if I have them. I go after getting HEF.

I finally beat the Guardian, with 6 BB's and 2 Titans, all equiped almost exclusively with heavy mount, 360 degree phasors.

In retrospect perhaps full 360 was not necessary.

remind me what HEF is, and why its important?

	05-12-2004 10:04									#58
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HEF gives 50% bonus to direct fire weapons damage.

	05-12-2004 12:29									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

High Energy Focus, a must for beamers, as is Interial Stabilizers.

	05-12-2004 20:59									#60
	Got spare money?

seems like the best ships have nothing but the best beam weapon, some specials to help it, and maybe a few defense specials?