05-12-2004 22:31									#61
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Late game, yes-the best strategy is to make sure the other side does not survive the first turn, so do the most damage you can.

	06-12-2004 08:04									#62
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well, ive won my game (only on average though) I accepted a council win. (I had abstained earlier, to keep the game going at least till id beaten the guardian - i decided not to go for Antares this game.

	06-12-2004 08:08									#63
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Now you are off and running.

	06-12-2004 08:32									#64
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What year was the council victory? just curious.

I remember once a while ago with antarans on, i let the game drag out REALLY long, and avoiding council wins etc etc. The antarans had bigger and bigger ships. They started attacking with ships called "harbringers" if i remember that had some special that reflected 1/3 damage of beam attacks and had black hole generators. I decided to take them out after seeing those ships for a big because frankly i was scared what would come next.

	06-12-2004 21:26									#65
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Anties use Damper fields and that quarters damage. They have 5 ships types:

Incursion
Marauder
Intruder
Interdictor (huge)
Harbinger (titan)

Moleculartronic Comp
Damper Field
Xen Armor
Quantum Detonator
15 PD (particle beams)
10 Particle Beams
2 Hv Particle Beams
2 Hv Deah Rays
20 Neutronium Bombs
Reflection Field
Sub Space Teleporter
3 Spatial Compressors
BHG
6 Fighter Bays (Interceptors)

	07-12-2004 08:41									#66
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quote: Originally posted by GTPoompt What year was the council victory? just curious. I remember once a while ago with antarans on, i let the game drag out REALLY long, and avoiding council wins etc etc. The antarans had bigger and bigger ships. They started attacking with ships called "harbringers" if i remember that had some special that reflected 1/3 damage of beam attacks and had black hole generators. I decided to take them out after seeing those ships for a big because frankly i was scared what would come next.

it was the 400th turn or so.

Ive now started another game, Alkarians, huge galaxy, 5 civs, prewarp, hard.

Im stuck in a corner, trying to build up my 3 colonies, and hope to break out against the Klackons.

	07-12-2004 19:52									#67
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quote: Originally posted by GTPoompt What year was the council victory? just curious. I remember once a while ago with antarans on, i let the game drag out REALLY long, and avoiding council wins etc etc. The antarans had bigger and bigger ships. They started attacking with ships called "harbringers" if i remember that had some special that reflected 1/3 damage of beam attacks and had black hole generators. I decided to take them out after seeing those ships for a big because frankly i was scared what would come next.

Yes, the Antarans begin attacking with frigates and eventually come at you with Titans, but only very late in the game.

I am never in a rush to end (a few times I have tried to colonize every single planet and contruct planets in all systems I can and grwo them to Giaia's all that can just to see how many people on can get- at that level I have been attacked by fleets of say 5 Antaran Titans-thought at that point that is not really a threat.

	08-12-2004 01:49									#68
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I like the challenge of capturing Antaran ships. The problem is the neat techs are on CLs, which I've never managed to capture.

	14-12-2004 03:06									#69
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well, that was a rough game. I defeated two space monsters, and expanded to those good systems, then went after a space dragon with a fleet of 1 BB and 2 CAs and i think a DD (im sure my designs were less than optimal). I kille the dragon, but only one CA survived and as soon as i sent a colony ship the Klackons appeared with their own colony ship, wanting the system i had just liberated. They went to war with me, and took that system, and a couple of smaller systems. I rebuilt, focusing on my better defended major systems. They came after me with a fleet of 6 titans, 6 BB's and several smaller ships, against my 5 BB's. After the slaughter, I gave up that game.


Starting over again, this time as Bulrathi.

	14-12-2004 03:16									#70
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I usually kill dragons with 2 BB's with no losses. You could probably do it with the 4 ships with no losses.

The thing is you do not want to expend resources for nothing. IOW losing ships and then the planet is not profitable.

	14-12-2004 03:24									#71
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I forget the settings you are using, but I would like to see you start to beat these guys or rather thrash them.

So if you want to run some sort of trail, post your game at the start and a save at say turn 100. Then one 50 turns later and each 50 until you either win or lose or bail out.

I will see if I can find anything that may be helpful to you along the way. If you prefer to keep working at it on your own, I understand. Just ignore the post.

BTW do not think I am trying to set myself up as a master, but merely someone that maybe could help you with some strategy. I am sure there are many who could do it as well or better, but they did not offer.

	14-12-2004 03:59									#72
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I forget the settings you are using, but I would like to see you start to beat these guys or rather thrash them. So if you want to run some sort of trail, post your game at the start and a save at say turn 100. Then one 50 turns later and each 50 until you either win or lose or bail out. I will see if I can find anything that may be helpful to you along the way. If you prefer to keep working at it on your own, I understand. Just ignore the post. BTW do not think I am trying to set myself up as a master, but merely someone that maybe could help you with some strategy. I am sure there are many who could do it as well or better, but they did not offer.

no problem oh sensai

For now id rather play on my own, and ask specific questions. I may post a game when my experience curve starts to flatten.

So far I lost my first complete game on Average, than won easily. 3rd game on hard I lost, though id didnt play all the way through. Ive started my 4th game.

	14-12-2004 04:07									#73
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Be aware that you will suffer research penalties at hard. So any research will take longer than normal for you, but not the AI.

Go get em.

	17-12-2004 12:14									#74
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Regarding Antarans: years ago there was a report of an editor named "Angry Ants" that increased the ferocity (frequency and fleet size) of Antaran attacks. I have been unable to track it down, but if anyone knows of it or an equivalent, i'd be very interested.

	18-12-2004 03:57									#75
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Starting over again, this time as Bulrathi.

I should have responded to this one. This is a specialized race and needs to be played very agressively.

I would suggest you consider making it with -spy and using those three picks for LHW and RHW.

Its normal picks are HG/+10 GC/+20 SA.

	18-12-2004 19:55									#76
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I should have responded to this one. This is a specialized race and needs to be played very agressively. I would suggest you consider making it with -spy and using those three picks for LHW and RHW. Its normal picks are HG/+10 GC/+20 SA.

im trying to play with the premade races first, before customizing them. I had perhaps not such great planets nearby. I ended at war with the Klackons. Had I been patient i suppose i could have beaten them, but I sent a fleet of 2 BBs and a CA out looking for trouble, and they killed it with a Titan and two BB's (and I was behind in tech) I may start that up eventually from an earlier save, but ive started a new game as the Silicoids and its seems much easier - less micromanagement, at any rate.

	18-12-2004 23:19									#77
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The stock bear race is very slow. Winning with stock races, other than a few of the better ones is not easy at hard or impossible.

It takes some care if you have 8 players. Once you get ready to roll, then it goes very fast. It has been some time, since I used the sillies, but I recall them as a difficult one to play.

Having the Klac as your neighbor is not going to be pleasant.

	20-12-2004 22:59									#78
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 The stock bear race is very slow. Winning with stock races, other than a few of the better ones is not easy at hard or impossible. It takes some care if you have 8 players. Once you get ready to roll, then it goes very fast. It has been some time, since I used the sillies, but I recall them as a difficult one to play. Having the Klac as your neighbor is not going to be pleasant.

Ah, well, that puts a different context on our discussion of what level you play on.

So far Ive found the sillies much easier than the other races ive tried, but then im playing in a huge galaxy with only 5 players, so theres been plenty of time to build up. Ive only recently made contact with the Darloks and Trilari. I have a fleet of 3 phasor armed BBs who have just take out a space crystal and and a space dragon. I think war with the Trilari is approaching.

	24-12-2004 09:29									#79
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Ah, well, that puts a different context on our discussion of what level you play on. So far Ive found the sillies much easier than the other races ive tried, but then im playing in a huge galaxy with only 5 players, so theres been plenty of time to build up. Ive only recently made contact with the Darloks and Trilari. I have a fleet of 3 phasor armed BBs who have just take out a space crystal and and a space dragon. I think war with the Trilari is approaching.

took trilar and two other stars, then made peace. killed the guardian and colonized orion. Next, war with Bulrathi?

	24-12-2004 10:09									#80
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You should post a screen shot or a save so we can see what you are talking about.

	26-12-2004 09:35									#81
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I finally won, at Antares, after passing up several council wins. First win on hard.

I'll try to post my last save (but its very late in the game) here.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=7805_Save6.sav

Last edited by lord of the mark on 26-12-2004 at 09:47

	26-12-2004 10:45									#82
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Cool, was this the same game the unload issue came up in?

	26-12-2004 11:06									#83
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Ok I terraformed the planets and was able to unload the marines. So I guess it is the games way of telling you you have all the marines allowed at that time.

It starts with 4 for a barracks and add 1 ever 5 (iirc) up the pop limit. All the planets in that system had marines (more than 4), so you either had to increase the pop or let some turns go by to be able to add any more.

Since I unload the first turn, I do not see this msg.

	26-12-2004 11:59									#84
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Feedback :

1- move pop from industry to research when the planet has nothing to do. I leave 2 on ind unless I have a sci leader. Then I leave only 1. This put it at 7400 RP instead of 3K.

2- too many ships being build. Many of the planets had not done all of their terraforming, this is why you could not unload troops.

3- not enough spies. ounly had 10 and the next turn someone stole something. You did not have any of the spy techs of note.
Many techs could have been stolen from others:

Battlestations
Planetary Missiles
Fighter Garrisons
Telepathic training
Stealth suit
Zeon and Pulson missiles improving you defenses a ton
Heavy Armor
Urridium Fuel Cells

After adjusting the pop you go from around 700bc to over 1500 extra per turn, so splurge and get spies.

4- buy those cheap builds, you have tons of cash

5- Leaders are not in the best systems.

Nimrazz to Orion as it is the only one that will build ships, if any does.
Grogg to Morrig it has 5 planets
Chung to Ynarl it has 4 planets

6- ships redesigned

Tornado I
delete Aug engines, you are going to be the attacks and do not need the extra priority or speed. No one will be able to stand up to your attack anyway.
delete black hole
delete phasors with the FX
change Phasor to add CO AF
You now have 40 phasors in that ship.

Fury

delete science pod, delete aug eng
add HEF/Reinforced Hull/Nullifier ( I would prefer Stablizer)
Phasor add CO AF
Now has 24

Armageddon

Well I would not even build this without convertor tech as all I want it for is to destroy planets.

add Pod Hull
add CO to phasors
change FX to F
now has 63 phasors.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 27-12-2004 at 01:45

	27-12-2004 00:27									#85
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Just wondering how you manage to not have any ship leaders so late in the game? Even as a Rep I get some.

	27-12-2004 04:16									#86
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7- I missed this but you do not have Warp Interdictors. It looks like Lighting fields was picked instead. These are critical devices to prevent anyone from jumping on you before you can react.

You have Darloks in the game and they have stealth ships. This means that if you did not have Loknar, do not get Omni for evolution, you best eliminate them. They can sneak up on you even if you have warps.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 27-12-2004 at 21:36

	27-12-2004 19:16									#87
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Feedback : 1- move pop from industry to research when the planet has nothing to do. I leave 2 on ind unless I have a sci leader. Then I leave only 1. This put it at 7400 RP instead of 3K. 2- too many ships being build. Many of the planets had not done all of their terraforming, this is why you could not unload troops. 3- not enough spies. ounly had 10 and the next turn someone stole something. You did not have any of the spy techs of note. Many techs could have been stolen from others: Battlestations Planetary Missiles Fighter Garrisons Telepathic training Stealth suit Zeon and Pulson missiles improving you defenses a ton Heavy Armor Urridium Fuel Cells After adjusting the pop you go from around 700bc to over 1500 extra per turn, so splurge and get spies. 4- buy those cheap builds, you have tons of cash 5- Leaders are not in the best systems. Nimrazz to Orion as it is the only one that will build ships, if any does. Grogg to Morrig it has 5 planets Chung to Ynarl it has 4 planets 6- ships redesigned Tornado I delete Aug engines, you are going to be the attacks and do not need the extra priority or speed. No one will be able to stand up to your attack anyway. delete black hole delete phasors with the FX change Phasor to add CO AF You now have 40 phasors in that ship. Fury delete science pod, delete aug eng add HEF/Reinforced Hull/Nullifier ( I would prefer Stablizer) Phasor add CO AF Now has 24 Armageddon Well I would not even build this without convertor tech as all I want it for is to destroy planets. add Pod Hull add CO to phasors change FX to F now has 63 phasors.

points 1, 2 3, 4, 5. Yeah, I do all this micromanagement stuff. The save I sent you was just before the game end, so i was getting lazy, esp since i was so far ahead. At that point i was just clicking next turn till I had enough ships to beat the Antarans, for the most part. I would have posted an earlier save, but didnt have any. (I will note that the procedure for managing saved games is inferior to that in civ2 - in particular the name I give the IN GAME is NOT the name the file has in Windows, in contrast to Civ2, and, IIRC, SMAC. Thus in games i save "silicoids - hard" and in Windows, its just Save6.gam - makes it harder to manage saved games)

	27-12-2004 19:17									#88
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Just wondering how you manage to not have any ship leaders so late in the game? Even as a Rep I get some.

they all were lost in combat, in particular in premature attacks on Antares, IIRC.

	27-12-2004 19:18									#89
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 7- I missed this but you do not have Warp Interdictors. It looks like Lighting fields was picked instead. These are critical devices to prevent anyone from jumping on you befor yu can react. You have Darloks in the game and they have stealth ships. This means that if you did not get Loknar, do not get Omni for evolution, you best eliminate them. They can sneak up on you even if you have warps.

your feedback on techs and ship design is appreciated.

	27-12-2004 21:34									#90
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I played a game with your settings and I see now that you probably can do anything you want in that game. At Hard with only five players, the AI was so backward, they never even threathen me, let alone attacked.

I already had nearly twice as many systems as the AI when I finally met one of the races.

Refitting the ships in effect doubles the number of ships or better. Then add to them the hull and mods and you are close 3 or 4 times the power.

I like to redesign ship constantly so I am getting full value for the current build. I may not refit older ones in games that it is just not needed.

Yeah the names you give in game do not appear outside of the game.