05-11-2004 07:10									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I don't think it works. Maybe it's better to just lose and election and let the other guys screw up. People will want an alternative the next time around and if you have stuck to what you believe they will respect you.

Thats what the British Labour party (see left) did through the 80s. The country got screwed in so many ways for 18 years - all because the Labour Party refused to change and reach out to the electorate. Before each general election Labour supporters told themselves "surely this time the public are sick enough of the Conservatives to vote for us" - if you can't gather support and broaden your appeal, it doesnt matter how much the electorate hates the other guys, they'll choose the devil they know.

	05-11-2004 07:12									#32
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Hey guys, did you ever stop to think that extremism and this wide-eyed crap doesn't get voters?

	05-11-2004 07:15									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If they go over there to kill they deserve to die. I hate what America stands for and I hate most Americans. They are my enemy.

With support like this, I can't imagine the Democrats needing any enemies.

	05-11-2004 07:16									#34
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Kids lives in Fresno, that sort of attitude is expected.

	05-11-2004 07:16									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Hey guys, did you ever stop to think that extremism and this wide-eyed crap doesn't get voters?

Imran, Ted Striker, and me: extremist Democrats.

I mean, umm....

	05-11-2004 07:19									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Imran, Ted Striker, and me: extremist Democrats. I mean, umm....

Not you, I mean the Greek tragedy that is constantly being rehashed every day. The Democratic grass roots movement is about as crazy as all get out. I mean, I took a look at the Democratic Underground today and I laughed my ass off.

	05-11-2004 07:20									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Kids lives in Fresno, that sort of attitude is expected.

What do you figure? If the younger Kerry had not given that Kublai Khan speech, would he be President elect right now?

	05-11-2004 07:22									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Nominate a real candidate... one that has a chance to actually win

That means a southern Centrist who knows how to balance the budget, won't spend to much time talking about gays (married or otherwise), who has a good military record but who never was an antiwar protester. It would help if he's voted for defense bills or even better was the governor of a southern state which expanded it's national guard.

There simply must be a man like this out there some where.

	05-11-2004 07:23									#39
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MtG for Prez!

	05-11-2004 07:29									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That means a southern Centrist who knows how to balance the budget, won't spend to much time talking about gays (married or otherwise), who has a good military record but who never was an antiwar protester. It would help if he's voted for defense bills or even better was the governor of a southern state which expanded it's national guard. There simply must be a man like this out there some where.

probably not

	05-11-2004 07:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker MtG for Prez!

Naw, he married a Mexian lady and moved out of the country. The white trash vote won't like that.

	05-11-2004 07:43									#42
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I really don't see how the Democrats can rest away the presidency without a candidate who can transcend the cultural divide. If it wasn't for Ross Perot, there never would've been a President Clinton. And if Clinton couldn't have won for the Democrats "mano a mano," then who could've?

Maybe the Dems should invest in the Libertarian Party as well, at least in working to loosen up the rules for third-parties.

Maybe the Dems should tell the left to "shut the hell up" during campaign season and not try and marry off every nancy-boy while shoving it in the face of the right.

Maybe the Dems should support a fair and equitable Title IX where non-revenue male sports are no longer allowed to be disposed of by universities to meet the ridiculous demands.

Maybe the Dems should not feed into the left's blazen hatred for the right. It's obvious they can't win them an election. How about a blanket "don't ask, don't tell" policy in all aspects of life? It seems to me, the right is far more accepting of the left than people are willing to recognize and accept.

Ad nauseum....

	05-11-2004 10:03									#43
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The Democrats need to work on simply running a better campaign. Kerry was fairly uncharismatic and left a lot of his own supporters feeling uncertain. Yet, he still came pretty close to beating Bush despite running against one of the strongest Republican campaigns since Reagan.

Ask yourself, what was the central theme of the Democratic campaign? If you can't think of one, you're right. There really was none. They seemed to be betting on the "anyone but Bush" ticket and overlooking the weaknesses of their own candidate. A lot of nonAmericans have asked me, "Why doesn't Kerry attack Bush on the Iraq War, especially the lies about WMDs?" "Why so little mention of his role in 9/11?" I couldn't disagree with this. I thought that maybe Kerry was afraid of offending conservatives who supported the war and believed in its link to terrorism. But that's ridiculous; those people would vote for Bush anyway. Kerry should have been stronger and firmer in attacking Bush, there is a lot of material to use. Bush certainly did it to him. Basically, we got a passionless man running a passionless campaign against the very opposite.

In 2008, the Democrats need to be ready to have an actual campaign.

	05-11-2004 10:51									#44
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Everyone talks doom and gloom, but the truth is Democrats lost two very close elections. And the Republicans only have narrow leads in the House and Senate, so its not all over. You just got beat. Quit being pussies and start preparing for next time.

	05-11-2004 10:53									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That means a southern Centrist who knows how to balance the budget, won't spend to much time talking about gays (married or otherwise), who has a good military record but who never was an antiwar protester. It would help if he's voted for defense bills or even better was the governor of a southern state which expanded it's national guard. There simply must be a man like this out there some where.

A couple comes to mind:

John McCain (southern, not a governor)

Jeb Bush (no military service)

	05-11-2004 11:10									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Nominate a real candidate... one that has a chance to actually win

It's not the candidate, it's the campaign.

The Democrats need to look at what the Republicans did and start using their tactics. After all, if the Republicans can get a light-weight like George W "elected" twice, then they must be doing something right.

The Kerry campaign was all over the board. What we had here was a failure to communicate.

	05-11-2004 12:40									#47
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It wasn't really the campaign; unless you want a ton of dirty campaigns where the battle is to demonize your opponent and divide the nation as much as possible.

We must work to get the media to review and factcheck everything they report on. If the President is lying, I want them to say it. If a Senator is lying, I want them to say it. If anyone is lying, I want them to say it. If there are truths that are relevent and unsaid, I want them to say it.

I also want Truth in Political Advertising Laws passed, right now it is insanely stupid that a toothbrush commercial needs to be more honest than a political ad of any sort. Stop the loopholes in the third party non-endorsing ads too, or if you don't, at least make them honest. This would be a little difficult to do right, things would need to be expedient, but with the above fix to the media you could certainly minimize dishonest ads to the last week or three of elections; where'd they'd still be torn apart by the media.

Kerry lost solely because Bush won a war to mischaracterize his stances. Sure, he wasn't going to get a huge amount of the religious right/moral conservative vote, but he had a ton of moderates out there to draw on; easily enough to win an election. The number of people that didn't understand what the candidates were standing for is vast though, and that is a major problem for our Democracy to fix.

-Drachasor

Last edited by Drachasor on 05-11-2004 at 21:40

	05-11-2004 12:43									#48
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How many threads does it take you guys to ***** and moan? I'm starting to actually worry about ya'll.

	05-11-2004 12:44									#49
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I could tell you two ways the Democrats could have won with a turnip running, but nobody wants to listen.

	05-11-2004 21:32									#50
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quote: I also want Truth in Political Advertising Laws passed, right now it is insanely stupid that a toothbrush commercial needs to be more honest than a political add of any sort.

NYE: I will listen to my friend from Canada's Utah.

	05-11-2004 21:55									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Hey guys, did you ever stop to think that extremism and this wide-eyed crap doesn't get voters?

It wins Che, Ge Pap, Agathon, and Kidicious, does it not? That has to count for something. Or does it?

	05-11-2004 22:11									#52
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quote: We must work to get the media to review and factcheck everything they report on. If the President is lying, I want them to say it. If a Senator is lying, I want them to say it. If anyone is lying, I want them to say it. If there are truths that are relevent and unsaid, I want them to say it.

You are absolutely right Drachosor. I don't feel this election had a big enough margin of victory either. If we can get the media to stop being biased and actually check whether or not Kerry is lying instead of just attacking Bush all the time then the Republicans would be even more powerful. 60+ percent of all reports were negative articles against Bush. The only network to really cover the swift boat veterans for truth was FoX news, and the others who did cover it went out on an attack campaign agaisnt them. This was the largest coalition by the left ever and you got trounced. Face the facts, nobody wants anti-American pinko commie hippies in office anymore.

	05-11-2004 22:12									#53
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anti-american pinko commie hippies

	05-11-2004 22:13									#54
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quote: 60+ percent of all reports were negative articles against Bush.

Proof?

And if they really wanted to be negative on Bush they could have kept saying there was no link between Saddam and Al Queda at all, over and over, but they didn't.

	05-11-2004 22:16									#55
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Imran, even if ML was right, Bush lied more than 50% more than Kerry, and that was *just during the campaign* and largely only on campaign issues.

In any case, I think it is promising we all want the media to factc check everything and agree that wether someone is being honest and the truth is news.

-Drachasor

	05-11-2004 22:25									#56
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http://www.mediaresearch.org/projects/worst/welcome.asp

You aren't going to win this argument. The media's left wing bias has been so well documented I'm actually amused you are trying to fight me on this. I don't know of any books written on the media's right wing bias, only the hordes written on its left wing bias. But I do love your desperation; it adds to the sweet taste of vitctory.

	05-11-2004 22:27									#57
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Mediaresearch.org

The media may be biased, but you said, and I quote: "60+ percent of all reports were negative articles against Bush."

Where is your proof? And please, don't dodge the question this time.

	05-11-2004 22:29									#58
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I'm not dodging the question. That number was given on FoX news and I'm still looking for it.

	05-11-2004 22:30									#59
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The media is biased, in Bush's favor, if anything. That might not be their intention or how their political views align, but that is how things work out.

They simply don't call the administration on lies or deceits much at all.

If Bush was lying 50% more than Kerry, then negative news about Bush should have come about 60% of the time, and that is just about lies and not about mess-ups in Iraq (which Kerry wouldn't have a role in). Hence it should be above 60%. This also doesn't include the magnitude or reach of the lies, which Bush "shone" at, for he had big lies.

-Drachasor

Edit: Oops, math error.

	05-11-2004 22:35									#60
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@ Drachosor. I'm glad people like you exist and support Democrats.