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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
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With Bush's election, with Barroso's attempt to make a new team, and with Arafat's upcoming death, these are interesting times for the EU indeed.
From the BBC:
quote:
Blair urges EU to accept Bush
Tony Blair is urging European leaders to wake up from their "state of denial" over President Bush's re-election.
"America has spoken. The rest of the world should listen," the prime minister says in an interview with The Times newspaper, published on Friday.
Mr Blair also admitted he had gone to bed at 2230GMT, well before the polls closed, thinking Mr Kerry may have won.
He woke up at 0530GMT to discover Mr Bush had won but declined to say if he was pleased with the eventual result.
Some people were in "a sort of state of denial", he told The Times, predicting a more "receptive mood" soon.
Mr Blair, who is in Brussels for a two-day summit with fellow European leaders, said America needed to listen to the world too.
"The fact is that President Bush is there for four years. He is there because the American people have chosen him," Mr Blair says in the interview.
The fact is that President Bush is there for four years. He is there because the American people have chosen him
Prime minister Tony Blair
He also makes clear he intends to take seriously what he perceives as his role in bringing the two continents together.
'UK is uniquely placed'
Britain is "uniquely placed" to make out the common ground because of its strong alliance with the US, he suggests.
Mr Blair gave the interview before leaving for the meeting of the European Council in Belgium where leaders are due to agree a five-year asylum and immigration plan.
The prime minister joined the summit on Thursday to discuss plans aimed at streamlining the issue.
He recently said the UK would only participate in EU-wide action where it was in UK interests but the Tories say he is surrendering a key veto.
Streamlining
Mr Blair says Britain will retain sovereign control over national borders because it only needs to opt into the EU measures it likes.
He also claims pooling decision-making in a 25-nation EU will streamline rules affecting asylum and immigration.
The leaders gathered in Brussels will also assess progress on the economic reform plans agreed in Lisbon in 2000 to make Europe more competitive.
Iraqi interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi is also travelling to the summit on Friday as the leaders agree a new aid package for his war-torn country. |
From the BBC:
quote:
Iraq overshadows EU summit
French President Jacques Chirac has decided to leave an EU summit just before a meeting with interim Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.
Mr Allawi is due to join EU leaders as guest of honour at the summit lunch in the Belgian capital.
Mr Chirac, an outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, said he had prior engagements and would not attend.
But he described French links with Iraqi officials as "excellent" and said he had never refused to meet Mr Allawi.
Meanwhile, UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has said some EU leaders are in a "state of denial" over President Bush's poll win.
He urged European leaders to accept President George Bush's re-election, in an interview with London's Times newspaper.
'Spectator countries'
Correspondents say Mr Chirac's move is seen as a clear snub to Mr Allawi, who has called for broader involvement in Iraq.
America has spoken. The rest of the world should listen
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair
Mr Allawi has implored so-called "spectator countries" to become actively involved in the reconstruction of Iraq.
Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency, denied that there was any snub by President Chirac.
The French leader is to fly to the United Arab Emirates on Friday to express condolences over the death on Tuesday of its founding leader, Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan al-Nahyan.
"I think that what we should do is look towards the future, forget about the past," Mr Bot told reporters.
But the open split in EU ranks over the Iraq war risks being reopened on Friday, the BBC's European affairs correspondent William Horsley reports from Brussels.
The EU is due to approve a package of aid for training Iraqi election officials, lawyers and police, but it is worth only 30 million euros ($39m) - a small sum by Europe's standards.
Two more members of the US-led coalition in Iraq, the Netherlands and Hungary, this week announced plans to withdraw their troops quite soon after the Iraqi elections, planned for January.
Mr Allawi, on a European tour, made his plea for wider participation in his country after a meeting with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Rome on Thursday. |
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DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:19
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Of course we accept Bush, as sincerely as he accepts us. We have just to avoid subjects of desagreement such as Darwin, God in politics, Iraq, multilateralism, UN, and a few others. I see no problem in that.
Last edited by DAVOUT on 05-11-2004 at 18:55
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:19
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Well, the French have never had much use for NATO. That would be two of them.
Sir Ralph is from East Germany. He's a smart guy, and I always like to hear what he has to say, but I think that if I said he had little use for NATO he would not correct me.
alva is your swing voter. He is a committed Euro, but he would be open to discussion. Only, you have to take into account the severe level of emnity towards the US that is rampant in Europe at the moment. alva will listen to your case, but he will be pulled the other way by people who make you seem a subdued individual.
The radical Brit? He could go either way.
Dr Strangelove would be your base. He's on your side no matter what, we think.
In this thread, I count one vote for a renewed alliance. Three for tear it down, right now, and two who you might convince.
I think you lost this crowd.
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Well, the French have never had much use for NATO. That would be two of them.
Sir Ralph is from East Germany. He's a smart guy, and I always like to hear what he has to say, but I think that if I said he had little use for NATO he would not correct me.
alva is your swing voter. He is a committed Euro, but he would be open to discussion. Only, you have to take into account the severe level of emnity towards the US that is rampant in Europe at the moment. alva will listen to your case, but he will be pulled the other way by people who make you seem a subdued individual.
The radical Brit? He could go either way.
Dr Strangelove would be your base. He's on your side no matter what, we think.
In this thread, I count one vote for a renewed alliance. Three for tear it down, right now, and two who you might convince.
I think you lost this crowd. |
The Alliance is the best hope for maintaining world order
Though we have ALL dropped the ball in Africa, and every western nation should be ashamed of our conduct (or lack thereof) for failing to respond to African conflicts. 
The upside is that the African Union forces seemed to be a somewhat effective force. 
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Why not? |
I guess I'm one of those NYE thinks doesn't want to see the alliance revived. It's rather true, but not entirely.
I'm all for a healthy relationship between the US and Europe (be it the EU, or individual European countries). Our common causes of worldwide stability and fight against worldwide terrorism would only suffer if there is too big of a rift.
However, I think Europe should stop being a vassal of the US, and rather be its equal. The cold war transatlantic alliance was built as a vasselage relationship, where the strongest part (the US) pledged to offer protection, but obtained obediance from its European allies.
This made sense during the cold war, especially for those countries who had no independent nuclear programme (= all European countries bar France, as the UK was depending on the US for its nuclear technology)
Such a vasselage relationship doesn't make sense at all today. The military threats against us are far inferior, and we are much stronger than we used to be. The terrorist threat requires different means, and the US cannot pledge to protect us, simply because it is a threat against which there can be no sure-shot protection nor retaliation.
I personally don't think we should heal the rift at any cost, i.e. I don't think we should go back to the relation as it was before. However, I would love it if both sides agreed to cooperate with each other, even while acknowedging our differences.
I would love to see ignorant and arrogant cowboys, and snotty arrogant cheese-eating surrender monkeys cooperate back again 
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
About healing the gap - I'd like to see it.
The question is if it is possible. There are voices in Europe (and IIUC also in the US) who think the good old times are over, and both Europe and the US are drifting apart, not because of Bush&Blair or Chirac&Schröder, but because of deeper (and growing) cultural, political, and religious differences between both sides. Maybe Kerry could have delayed the process, but noone could stop or even reverse it (so they think). |
BeBro,
In my opinon, the alliance has actually gone two ways, with respect to how people in America view it.
There are those of us who have grown more towards the European view of the way things happen in the world, those people are the ones who voted blue and went with Kerry.
Then there are the conservatives that voted red, the ones that say, "I really don't care what the hell the rest of the world has to say."
Unfortunatley they spoke the loudest on election day.
But the rest of us are mad as hell, and have alot more motivation to reach out and rebuild the alliance.
Personally I have a great deal of remorse for what is going on here.
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I guess I'm one of those NYE thinks doesn't want to see the alliance revived. It's rather true, but not entirely.
I'm all for a healthy relationship between the US and Europe (be it the EU, or individual European countries). Our common causes of worldwide stability and fight against worldwide terrorism would only suffer if there is too big of a rift.
However, I think Europe should stop being a vassal of the US, and rather be its equal. The cold war transatlantic alliance was built as a vasselage relationship, where the strongest part (the US) pledged to offer protection, but obtained obediance from its European allies.
This made sense during the cold war, especially for those countries who had no independent nuclear programme (= all European countries bar France, as the UK was depending on the US for its nuclear technology)
Such a vasselage relationship doesn't make sense at all today. The military threats against us are far inferior, and we are much stronger than we used to be. The terrorist threat requires different means, and the US cannot pledge to protect us, simply because it is a threat against which there can be no sure-shot protection nor retaliation.
I personally don't think we should heal the rift at any cost, i.e. I don't think we should go back to the relation as it was before. However, I would love it if both sides agreed to cooperate with each other, even while acknowedging our differences.
I would love to see ignorant and arrogant cowboys, and snotty arrogant cheese-eating surrender monkeys cooperate back again |
We need more access to Eastern European females. As Reconcilliation Officer what the hell do you plan to do about this? 
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BeBro
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of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
BeBro,
In my opinon, the alliance has actually gone two ways, with respect to how people in America view it.
There are those of us who have grown more towards the European view of the way things happen in the world, those people are the ones who voted blue and went with Kerry.
Then there are the conservatives that voted red, the ones that say, "I really don't care what the hell the rest of the world has to say."
Unfortunatley they spoke the loudest on election day.
But the rest of us are mad as hell, and have alot more motivation to reach out and rebuild the alliance.
Personally I have a great deal of remorse for what is going on here. |
I sometimes feel the same about Europe. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of thing I love here, but sometimes I'd like to have the best of both worlds, US and Europe in one, but that's probably just dreaming....
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05-11-2004 17:51
European leaders at their best. 
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