08-11-2004 09:12									#1
	Could anyone post some saves on higher diffs? Increase Your PM Length

Hi,

I just recently got back into civ 3. (played a long while ago, lost my CD, then bought civ 3 complete at discount price).

I played a game on warlord, and it was too easy. Time for me to jack up the difficulty.

Anyway, I was wondering if some people could post some of their savegames in the higher difficulties (monarch and up) somewhere in the middle (around late medieval i suppose. Also when you're doing well, I can easily reproduce the crappy games )

I was just curious on stuff like city layouts, mines//irrigations, amount of workers/cities, what you build in cities, etc etc. I just thought some saves would make the process much easier then explaining.

I'm using civ 3 complete (which is all the xpacs) and the newest patch.

thanks for the help.

P.S.: is CxxCxxC still one of the better ways of city layout? or is there another?

	08-11-2004 09:24									#2
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Yes, cxxcxxc is a good spacing. cxcxc is usually the best, but it's somewhat an exploit and also gets tiresome. Here's a screen:

Attachment: celts.jpg
This has been downloaded 232 time(s).

	08-11-2004 09:32									#3
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There are a numer of threads with games at various points in this forum and detail posts in the AU forum.

	08-11-2004 09:50									#4
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k thanks, i'll check the AU forum.

Also, what is the government most people use in the late game? Is it worth it to go for democracy or stick with republic. /communism

EDIT: I looked throught the forum quick there, I saw a lot of pictures, but no actual save games other than those starting in 4000 BC. I'll check again a little later, as I have to go to a huge party at the library for about 4-5 hours because of a test tomorrow.

Last edited by GTPoompt on 08-11-2004 at 09:58

	08-11-2004 11:22									#5
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The form of gov is a tricky one. If I am not religious (and I seldom am), I will only make one change. This mean no commie or no Demo for me.

Mostly Rep, but I have played Monarch all the way through at sid a few times.

	09-11-2004 06:16									#6
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Here is a medieval save...

Monarch level. Babylon. I avoided any games in which I got absurdly good luck (like an early SGL). This one obviously isn't a hard luck start, of course...

Note: I'm in my GA.

-Arrian

Attachment: babylon.sav
This has been downloaded 19 time(s).

	09-11-2004 06:18									#7
	Remove this text

Here is another one.

Neither one is perfect - having loaded them up to look at them, I can see a couple of things I might quibble with...

You will no doubt notice that my city spacing is rather wide compared to many other players. I can get away with it on Monarch, and I like the game better that way. But I cannot really argue that my spacing is more powerful, especially the higher up you go in difficulty... it gets to the point where playing like me is like handicapping yourself.

-Arrian

Attachment: iroquois.sav
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

	10-11-2004 02:01									#8
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Nice games, much better than mine

are armies that much better than they used to be?

Well, I never seem to get great leaders in the first place though

Is there a reason that you don't leave the inner cities defended? Or is it the fact that the AI attacks the outer cities first?

	10-11-2004 02:48									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, armies now official ROCK. They're too good, really. For instance, once you have all the buildings built (Military Academy, Pentagon) and put 4 units in your armies, the combat bonii basically end up doubling the stats. A 4x Cavalry army is then 12.6.4. Plus free pillage and better healing than armies in vanilla civIII or PTW.

Inner cities are not defended because there is no need. The AI cannot get to them (I'm generally careful about signing right of passage agreements with AIs that share a land border with me). I typically set up a coastal defense net of units so that if the AI sails over and drops off a couple of units I can kill them. The balance of my units go to border cities.

Key to this is that under Republic, the form of government I'm using in both of those games, units in cities do not help curb unhappiness. Further, Republic makes you pay a hefty premium for having a large military - so it's much more cost efficient to have a smaller force and concentrate it at the front. Later in the game if/when I switch to communism, I may put units back into core cities to assist with happiness. If I used monarchy, same deal. Since I almost always use Republic, crappy old units (regular warriors, archers, stuff like that) tend to get disbanded. If I used Monarchy instead, I'd keep them for MP use.

-Arrian

	12-11-2004 00:08									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for posting those saves, Arrian.

The first things that struck me about the Babs game were :

(1) It's so dark . There might even be another Civ somewhere down south! The Iroqois looked more as I'd expect, with the home continent circumnavigated.
(2) Excellent pop level and terrain improvement for a non-ind Civ in about 460AD. How many cities were dedicated worker pumps - two or three? 9 cities just about maxed out, with another bunch of medium sizers all productive. I'm guessing that wads of workers were added to cities for maxing the GA.
(3) Seems like a huge rex - did you bash visiting settlers to keep the area clear, or were they all a long way off. Also, why do they only have a few cities each now? Did you smiteth them unto the dust?
(4) That's a cunningly slim military you've got in both games for simultaneously defending a large empire and eating up a neighbour. 5 defenders, 4 Horse/MW, 6/7 MI in 2 Armies, 6 Ancient Cavalry and a few Cats. What I can't understand is how you're strong to all neighbours with that. In the Iroq game you're stronger than the overseas Civs too.

In all, two very impressive civs. :notworthy: Any chance of a brief military history?

	12-11-2004 00:13									#11
	Tired of ads?

As for getting the armies...

do you build barrack to get veteran units then go pick on the weaker enemy civs until a GL?

Or is it just pure luck (but i mean after the first one you can build)

	12-11-2004 02:15									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Most of the time I will not build troops after the initial warriors without a barracks. So you have vets whatever they are and can try to get some elites.

Then you use elites in fights that they are nearly sure to win and hope for the best.

	12-11-2004 02:25									#13
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Cort:

I remember the Babs game best, so I'll try a quick recap:

Darkness: I must have lost my curragh to barbs and not bothered to build another. No matter, what you see is what you get. France, England, Carthage. The others are overseas.

REX/size/pop: Start position was far away from the nearest neighbor - France. Powerful REX, yes. Babylon and the city directly to its southwest were the settler/worker pumps. Babylon stopped pumping and started building wonders, but the other city kept going for a long time. IIRC, by the time of that save, I had stopped pumping and it was up around size 9 or 10.

I added lots of workers to cities. I actually found myself (as I often do) short of workers when I got to Steam Power. I ended up creating a 1-turn worker pump down south (north/northeast of Paris).

I can't remember, really, but I may have nailed a french settler team early on. But overall I did very little until the main invasion of France, which is ongoing at the time of the save.

My military is pathetic! But the AI civs arrayed against me are quite weak. By the time I got around to fighting England and Carthage, it looked quite different (horde of cavalry, a bundle of cannon, muskets... the works).

...

I remember less about the Iroquois game since I love playing that civ, so I have lots of Iroquois games... they tend to blend together.

...

I've taken to being a pretty extreme builder (outside of some settler bopping) until I get my empire built the way I like it (at least temple, courthouse, library, market... probably cathedral and uni as well) and THEN doing a massive buildup -> Cavalry attack. In a sense, I am become Nathan.

-Arrian

	12-11-2004 02:40									#14
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by GTPoompt As for getting the armies... do you build barrack to get veteran units then go pick on the weaker enemy civs until a GL? Or is it just pure luck (but i mean after the first one you can build)

I will typically build a few regular (no barracks) units in the beginning. Primarily warriors, and maybe an archer or two for exploration, barb killing & military police duty. Some of those will get promoted (or killed) fighting barbs. Pretty early, though, I start building barracks to turn out veteran troops.

As for getting MGLs...

Procedure:

1) If a undamaged defender is showing, I attack with vet unit first (preferably something that can retreat, like a horseman), UNLESS I am fairly certain that the undamaged defender showing is the last defender, or it's weak enough to pose little threat to my attacking elite unit (like a knight attacking a spearman in a size 1 town on flat land). Elites are used to mop up, thus giving them better odds of victory. Elite victories = chance for MGL. Lose your elites, lose your chances for MGLs.

2) Soften the enemy with bombardment. I don't always do this (my most recent ancient war, in fact, was a standard archer attack, before I even had mathematics). This gives better odds for all of your units. Better odds of victory/survival = better odds of promotion = more elites = more elite wins = more leaders.

3) No rush, especially if you're a despot, a king, a commie or a fascist. March in deliberately, one tile at a time. Protect your units, bring bombard support. If a stray AI unit tries to run around you, kill it (with an elite, if possible). If that delays taking a city, ok. Minimize casualties by allowing your units to heal properly. The flip side of that is if you have, say, a 5/6 elite ancient cavalry and a regular AI warrior wanders by... by all means hit the warrior with the elite AC.

In short, maximize the generation of elite units, and maximize the number of battles they fight in which they have a good chance of victory.

There are some threads on this... IIRC, "Taking care of your elites" was all about it...

-Arrian

	12-11-2004 03:07									#15
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Can't help you with a save game. First, it's too large to post here. Second, I'm at Modern Age. Unless you really want it , then I will e-mail it to you.

	12-11-2004 03:26									#16
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Ok, so I started up a game, all random.
played as a random civ too...... diff = reagent.

Hittites were below me, immediately roaded then blocked them off from coming in my territory.

Now it seems that i am falling WAY behind on tech levels.... like 4 techs from the hittites. I think it's due to me not having a reasearch plan and i just reasearched stuff - probably should have beelined for republic like i usually do. Staying in despotism for that long is bad

Anyway, i'm building the great library to "see" if there is any sort of hope for this game, hopefully the lib will give 4 or so techs, bring me into medieval age or so, then scientific gives another free tech...

Also the other place i really got screwed is when the hittites attacked me stupid enkidu warrior gave me a golden age at a bad time.

I'll post game here, tell me whether it is worth it to continue or not (BTW, I actually did the worker stuff by myselfs, but i think i don't have enough workers due to my trying to make the golden age "somewhat" useful by pop rushing with them)

EDIT: btw, i'm starving the city in the corner thats building the great library so i can get it done faster, i'll just sac a worker

Attachment: gilgamesh of the sumerians, 30 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	12-11-2004 03:51									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I just looked over your current game.

1) Why didn't you go for Philosophy???
2)Corruption is a handicap to your border cities. Get Code of Laws and build courthouse in those cities.
3) No one else is building Great Library, that's a plus. Could help you until someone gets Education.
4) You need to get out Despotism, your handicapping yourself.

I like this game. I bored with my current one haven't played Regent in awhile. I'll send you updates.

	12-11-2004 04:03									#18
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hehe... i was playing kind of dumb

As for not going for Philosophy, I was hoping to trade for both from the hittites, but apparently that isn't happening, cant get a road into their capital so i can't trade my excess furs

anyway, so i got the library built up and now i'm back in the game. Unfortunately, the netherlands (who i just met) came and plopped down a city in my territory.....

EDIT:

Update, played a bit more, got republic and the game seems to be turning around.

Is it worth it for chivalry? or a waste of an advance (pay comp for it or something)

Last edited by GTPoompt on 12-11-2004 at 04:10

	12-11-2004 04:10									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well it is not certain as you have only contact with one civ, so it is hard to say where you really stand.

You could win, I have no doubt, but not without some big changes in tactics.

1) no where near enough workers and hence not much is done to the land.

Most tiles have no roads and few have mines or any improvements.

2) many cities on wealth, that is a no no in ancient times.

3) Libs being built in many cities that really cannot use them. They are too small at this point. They could be making workers and settlers instead.

4) No exploration and hence no contacts. Get a curragh out asap in any game.

5) The capitols is not growing at size 6 and is on wealth. It should be much larger and have all of the worked tiles improved.

6) citizens working unimproved tiles, that is to be avoided, if possible.

7) too many warrior type units and most are regulars. One way to avoid that early GA is to not build any UU's or keep them out of harms way.

8) Your only contact only has 4 cities and you have lots of units, trim him now. If you have a barracks, upgrade a few UU's to swords. Start making horsemen instead of any others.

9) I would have preferred you to get philo much sooner and to work on a new government soon.

10) lack of contacts means no one to trade with in the ancient era, where it is very beneficial.

11) At regent I would expect to make as many of the wonders as suited me and get the boost from the many good ones. The AI will not be able to get a strong city early and you could.

Understand, wonders are not needed, but in a regent game, it is a problem if you are not doing well enough to get some.

	12-11-2004 04:14									#20
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quote: Originally posted by GTPoompt my excess furs anyway, so i got the library built up and now i'm back in the game. Unfortunately, the netherlands (who i just met) came and plopped down a city in my territory..... EDIT: Update, played a bit more, got republic and the game seems to be turning around. Is it worth it for chivalry? or a waste of an advance (pay comp for it or something)

If had gotten a city making settlers and another or even the same one doing workers now and then, you would have filled in all your land and avoided any intrusion.


Chiv is great if you want to attack someone, if not you can wait to get it cheap.

Good luck.

	12-11-2004 05:14									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

ok... tell me what you guys think now....

I'm probably going tech wise to go for copernicus, then go all out for military tradition and get a rush for cavalry and start attacking hittites...

I still don't have much of a map, but i did meet new civs.

I understand that I AM a pretty bad Civ III'er though Criticism accepted in all shapes or forms

saving up gold so then i can upgrade all those old enkundo's lyings around.

As for workers... I have some cash surplus but not TOO much. If I start building workers thats 2 gp/turn each because i'm over the support limit. is that surplus (+20) too big? The reason my workers aren't organized//big enough manner is because i used to let them on automate.... but i hear that is a very bad idea so i am trying to learn the ways of the worker

Attachment: gilgamesh of the sumerians, 1070 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

Last edited by GTPoompt on 12-11-2004 at 05:22

	12-11-2004 05:53									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

GTPoompt don't worry about being bad, I am sure you are much better than many.

Yes learning to manage your workers and to have enough to do the job will move you up quite a bit.

The key to those things are to try to have enough workers to improve tiles as they are worked. The number of workers is not a constant as industrial civs work faster and bad terrian need more workers.

Focus on at least one per city and to minimize the wasted turns. This is done by having an idea of what comes next and not sending your worker back and forth.

Don't work that hill first thing, when you have grasslands that would yield more and take less work. Try to have a road down and not have to travel over unroaded tiles.

The workers will pay for themselves quickly. If you have a worked tile with no road and no improvement (and you probably do), it will cover the cost.

Anyway take the hit if you must. Disband a few old units that are not needed. Get a few more cities.

	12-11-2004 06:14									#23
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1) you did not take any land from the Hittite in all that time?

2) Kua entertainer is not needed and can work the forrest for 2 shields.

3) no embassies

4) Incense is not hooked up, this could ease it some and remove the need of the entertainers

5) still no exploring


You can make at least one town on or near the incense. Two in the open plains and maybe one on the coast near Islin.

Those extra towns would cover some support.

You can disband some of those UU's as the regulars are not worth upgrading IMO.

You can get a barracks in one of the idle towns and have it make Knigths to replace those warriors and such. Any reg unit at this stage is of no value or nearly none.

Never build Knights without a barracks or any units after the ancient age. You are in Republic, so no need to have those troops in those cities in middle of the empire. They are the first to go.

Hold the fort. I just noiced you are researching at 50% on ED and you have the GL? You will get ED for free. Most will not research if they ae getting free techs from the GL.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 12-11-2004 at 06:50

	12-11-2004 08:11									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

As for the hittites

well, I was gathering my army and about to attack them.... then the STUPID dutch sneak attack me. I am forced to bribe people for war.

Now it has gone a little overboard but fun
EDIT: made pictures smaller

Screenies
whos at war with who


Alliances (now this is crazy)



However, even though the dutch still have a score advantage, i've pulled ahead in the teceeh wars. However, i still need to find some way of getting out of this massive war...

Last edited by GTPoompt on 13-11-2004 at 00:13

	12-11-2004 11:00									#25
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GTPoompt, post another save. I'm curious to see what you have.

Here's where I am with the last save you posted.

Attachment: sumerians1.sav
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	12-11-2004 11:04									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ooops, did not see your post. I see from your attachement your at 1070AD. The attachement I posted is the Sumerians at 540AD I think.

	12-11-2004 20:12									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If you want the above game I posted, here it is. It's with the AU mod, however, but that's not too different from stock and shouldn't really affect things you're looking at.

Attachment: aucelts.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	12-11-2004 23:58									#28
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K here's my latest game.

Unfortunately there are so many wars i'm slowly getting in war weariness even though I was attacked without a CB.

I'm first in industrial age, i think the dutch may be close behind.

i had a lot more troops to begin with.... but this has been one long war with marginal gains. i gained 3 cities from the dutch, could probably take more if i decided to mobilize and really pump out the troops. My plan was to march completely towars amsterdam and take it because its a wonder city..... but the dutch have SO many of those swiss mercenaries its tough even with the 6 attack cavalry.

However, at least the dutch talk to me now.

ONE of the problems is that i have a mutual protection pact with scandaniavia and they are being targeted, which is bad. Also if i drop the war with dutch everyone will probably be pissed off.

EDIT: i'm sure with a concentrated effort i could take all of the dutch, it'd just take a while and i'd possibly have to switch to another govt (maybe i should go for commie just in case). This is probably because no one else has riflemen yet.

Attachment: gilgamesh of the sumerians, 1460 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

Last edited by GTPoompt on 13-11-2004 at 00:15

	13-11-2004 02:25									#29
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GTPoompt, glad to see you're hanging in there with the amount of AI's on this continent. 1460AD, damn dude I only progressed to 690AD. Here's my latest save. I'm beating your 1070AD progression though.

Attachment: sumerians2.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	13-11-2004 02:57									#30
	Remove this text

Here's a Middle Ages save of the Portuguese at 500AD on a standard continents map, emperor, 500AD.