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Heresson
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of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:19
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quote:
[SIZE=1]
Well, aside from medieval monasteries not being entirely counter-productive to learning, what exactly has Christianity done?
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Hospitals, more humanitarian laws, marriage as a consent of two people, wonderful architecture, paintings, sculptures, literature (not only Christian or Christian-influenced, but also completely allien to it; many of the literature styles have roots in Christian culture), the care over babies... Even EU idea has Christian roots.
The European culture as we know it would not exist without Christianity. We can not say how it'd look or would it exist at all. We can not claim it'd be better, because we do not know that. But we can say that many of the valuable things that exist today would not exist.
And it's enough not to regret Christianity
quote:
Bach would still have written music had Christianity not been around. It just wouldn't have explored the same themes. |
No. You can't say that. Religion was an inspiration of his work, and the type of the music itself is strongly connected with the religion itself. If not for christianity,
His works would've been completely different, and doubtly the same great.
BACH in the sense of the composer who wrote that and that would not exist. Perhaps someone else would - but we do not know that.
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Heresson
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of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:19
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quote:
Or calling Stalin an atheist. |
What was He, according to You?
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Originally posted by Proteus_MST
If you compare muslim and christian kingdoms from that time you would find out,
that the muslims at this time were more open minded and scientifically more developed than their christian counterparts.
The steep rise of the european countries began only after the church lost its power (and the strict control it had over the christian science and society)
(whereas in the muslim countries the religious factions gained more power within the society and they became more narrow minded and more xenophobe) |
That's not true.
Byzantines were not much less developed than Muslims, even though they lost their best provinces on their behalf.
Muslims owned their knowledge to what they learned from Christians and pagans, as well as their developement - they conquered the richest Christian lands, and built a civ basing on it, while the Christians
were under barbaric rule, or, as Byzantium and Aethipia, under constant Muslim siege.
None other Christian country was so filled with religion as late Roman empire - and later Byzantium. yet, it was the most developed one.
The start of scientific Europe's growth comes from the times of Renaissance, which was not less Christian than Middle Ages, I dare to say it was more fundamentalistic when it comes to religion even.
Only "Enlightement" brought the birth of atheism.
On the other hand, Muslim caliphate was a theocracy, while the Muslim world started losing its dominance when the caliphate got extinct...
Ottomans were not at all more religious than any other dinasty before them.
Yes, tight religious rule can be a trouble for science, but not because of the religion itself, but due to that the people responsible for mantaining religion tend to become part of the establishment of their times, and bear the convictions of their times, and often treat them as if they were the part of the religion - as in their vision they are, when they try to prove them by religion and vice versa.
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Dr Strangelove
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
As for Christianity being too white, they should come up here! At my baptism, I had a Russian, a Malaysian, and a Korean citizen, (all born there, and now residents of Canada), in the same car while driving to the church.
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Uhhhh...... Ben, Russians are white, at least most of them. They're slavic caucasians just like Poles, Czecks, Slovenes, Croatians, Bulgarians and etc.
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Proteus_MST
The church did a lot of missionary work in Africa and South America, so it´s no big surprise for me. |
I don't know about Africa or South America, but a case study of the locals can help shed some lights on the subject.
Several decades back, just right after WWII, the local Chinese population was very poor. A lot of people couldn't even fill their bellies 3 times a day. And the babies were hit the hardest, because the parents didn't have money to buy the formulae, and the mothers didn't have enough food to produce sufficient milk.
So, a lot of them flock to the churches. Coz if they join, they could get food for themselves and baby milk powder for the kids. Yes, a lot of people joined the churches, but how many of them really did believe?
Looks to me there's a strong parallel between what happened here, and what's happening in Africa.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I thought they reached comparable levels around the Renaissance times. So around 1400 years.
What I was getting at, is that Europe has benefitted greatly from Christianity, that it surprises me someone could consider them to be a hindrance. |
Hate to break your bubble it was the Muslim of the Mibble East that taught Europe. They now found evindence in Spain that Muslim Spain have the moveable type printing press way before Johannes in Germany. It was the only way to print 100,000's of hundred's of page of the First Koran. The Muslim learn the secret of the printing press and papermakeing from the Chincess when they battle ended in a draw. The Muslim Army is consider the winner as they only withdraw 100 miles while the Chiness army withdraw over 1200 miles alway back to the Chiness heartland where that Chiness Empire fell. The Chiness printing press was not moveable type press.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Heresson
That's one.
Two is that the scientific backwardness in middle Ages had more to do with barbarian invasions than with introducing Christianity.
The problems didn't start in IV century, when majority of former RE became Christian, but later on. |
It was the Christian that destory the Great Library in Alex. in the 4th of 5th century ACE. The Muslim where more advange than Europe in medine than European untiil the very late 19th century. Doctor and surgeon didnot wash they hands or clean they operation table and tools untril the late 19th century. The Muslim have the germ theory of illness long before Europe. Muslim doc have to watch they hand with strong soap and alchol which kill most germs, they operation table have to be wash with strong caustic compound between operation than they tools have to be heated for a certain amount of time in a hot flame which kill most germ. Bandage have to be change everyday and have to be soak in very hot water and then into alchol.
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13-11-2004 07:26
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