13-11-2004 02:11									#1
	The Triumph of Christianity Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hi
I've been thinking about this thread for a while, for several reasons.
One is, that I am annoyed by thoughts that religion, especially Christianity, is bound to go extinct
Also I was annoyed by black people turning Muslim because they found Christianity "too white"
And, last but not least, because I find it ABSOLUTELY AMAZING, incredible, fascinating, what happens in several places in the world.
The one I give a link to is Africa. But also in other places, like in Korea, we could witness a triumphal march of the Christian faith.
The fact that I post this thread only now, is due to that I did not quite believe the fact.
I've seen a map of religions in Africa in 1900 and one in 2000, but the second one I did not find quite reliable, and the first one was too Christian - optimistic in some parts as well.
However, it seems to be true.
Sub-Saharean Africa is Christian now!
Enjoy.
http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/GLIMPS.../glmps151.shtml

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	13-11-2004 02:11									#2
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And now...

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	13-11-2004 02:15									#3
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Ah. I knew there was a reason Africa was such a mess.

Meanwhile, church attendance in Europe continues to dwindle. What a non-pity.

	13-11-2004 02:16									#4
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One of the most touching parts was a thing I've read in an interview with Emmanuel Olisadebe "Oli", the first black player in Polish national team.
He said that when He came to Poland, He was very pleasantly suprised that there are catholics in Poland as well (as He's a catholic).
At first I found it quite suprising... "what did He think Poles are?" but it is beautiful, that He embraced this religion to the point He treated it as rather one belonging to his own country, than to Europe.

There's also a lot of speculating about if the future pope shall be black...
But they say that after the troubles with one African archbishop that joined Moon sect for a while and got married, the chances are smaller than used to be.

	13-11-2004 02:18									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Ah. I knew there was a reason Africa was such a mess. Meanwhile, church attendance in Europe continues to dwindle. What a non-pity.

	13-11-2004 02:31									#6
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The church did a lot of missionary work in Africa and South America, so it´s no big surprise for me.
And after all large parts of Africa were western colonies throughout the first half of the 20th century,
so the european missionaries had free access to heathens which they could convert

	13-11-2004 02:59									#7
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The work is still going on. A lot of Poles, even from my parish church (it's cathedral now, so it's understandable)
is sending people on missions.

Soon, black African missions will come to re-christinise Africa

	13-11-2004 03:38									#8
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	13-11-2004 03:42									#9
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Ethiopia went from Christian minority in 1900 to majority in 2000? Shouldn't that be the other way round?

	13-11-2004 03:47									#10
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Heresson:

It is heartening to see. I had no clue as to the growth of Christianity when I first became one, especially in Korea. But Korea sends the second largest total of missionaries abroad!

As for Christianity being too white, they should come up here! At my baptism, I had a Russian, a Malaysian, and a Korean citizen, (all born there, and now residents of Canada), in the same car while driving to the church.

You'll often see the prayer groups here, with a token white guy.

	13-11-2004 03:58									#11
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Christianity always looks good to people who have little hope of improving there present condition or world they live in. However, it can come as a hinderance (especially fundy Christianity) to those that want to improve their world and make it a utopia instead of giving up on it and waiting for the next life.

Something to ponder though is why the spread of Christianity hasn't done anything to curb the AIDS epidemic in Africa

Last edited by Thucydides on 13-11-2004 at 04:10

	13-11-2004 03:59									#12
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The South Pacific has gone über-Christian too, thanks to thousands of American fundamentalist missionaries.

There's no such thing as the promiscuous hula-hula girl anymore Just lots of obese spam-eating fundies

	13-11-2004 04:01									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Thucydides Something to ponder though is why the spread of Christianity hasn't done anything to curb the AIDS epidemic in Africa

Many churches discourage the use of condoms.

	13-11-2004 04:07									#14
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It's the globalization of religion: where we used to have thousands of different religions and even more deities, now the world's getting steamrolled by a few number of one-god religions.

	13-11-2004 04:11									#15
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quote: Christianity always look good to people who have little hope of improving there present condition or world they live in.

Interesting.

Luke 15:1-2

"Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

quote: However, it can come as a hinderance (especially in the fundamentalist type) that want to improve their world and make it a utopia instead of giving up on it and waiting for the next life.

John 2:17

"Zeal for your house will consume me."

quote: Something to ponder though is why the spread of Christianity hasn't done anything to curb the AIDS epidemic in Africa

Actually, the Uganda folks have succeeded in stemming the tide.

Go here.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/ar...ity/se0074.html

	13-11-2004 04:13									#16
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quote: It's the globalization of religion: where we used to have thousands of different religions and even more deities, now the world's getting steamrolled by a few number of one-god religions.

Darn those Buddhists and Hindus! Spreading their faith all around the world. Crushing the multitudes of native religions in their wake, with their voluptuous Vedas.

	13-11-2004 05:47									#17
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Well, yes Christianity is on rise in Third World but it's not neccessarily the Christianity you would recongize. Most of the time, 3rd World people would take the religion and twist it to fit their local customs and culture.

Take Uganda's Army of the Lord or whatever they are called - they kidnap children and use them as sex slaves and soldiers. Very Christian, indeed.

	13-11-2004 05:55									#18
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or the koreans...many korean protestants perform the chusok ancestor duties, believe in magical semi-religion asian customs like feng shui, etc.

	13-11-2004 05:56									#19
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so it is not only catholicism that mixes well with other religions

JM

	13-11-2004 06:03									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Most of the time, 3rd World people would take the religion and twist it to fit their local customs and culture.

Only 3rd World people? What happened to the basics of Christianity, "Turn the other cheak" in America (and elsewhere)?

	13-11-2004 06:13									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Ethiopia went from Christian minority in 1900 to majority in 2000? Shouldn't that be the other way round?

Not necessarily;
Aethiopia is a state of Christian tradition, but it conquered a lot during XIX century it seems.
Of course, there are a lot of Muslims there, and it seems they are (going to be) a majority there, but also pagans, which may have been Christianised.

quote: Christianity always looks good to people who have little hope of improving there present condition or world they live in

Nah, nah, not only to them.

quote: Many churches discourage the use of condoms.]

But they order no marriage except for in marriage too...

quote: It's the globalization of religion: where we used to have thousands of different religions and even more deities, now the world's getting steamrolled by a few number of one-god religions.

And when we'll have no pagans left, we'll have a clash of civilisations

	13-11-2004 06:32									#22
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quote: Well, yes Christianity is on rise in Third World but it's not neccessarily the Christianity you would recongize. Most of the time, 3rd World people would take the religion and twist it to fit their local customs and culture.

Actually, the inverse is true. All the innovations to Christianity you are seeing here in the West. The secular West is trying to change Christianity to fit their culture. I have no hesitation in saying that these Africans have a more Christian culture, than we do.

That's why all these African Anglicans are refusing to send their priests to train in the West.

quote: Take Uganda's Army of the Lord or whatever they are called - they kidnap children and use them as sex slaves and soldiers. Very Christian, indeed.

That's like calling the Branch Dravidians a Christian commune.

They are in no ways, Christian.

	13-11-2004 06:32									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Only 3rd World people? What happened to the basics of Christianity, "Turn the other cheak" in America (and elsewhere)?

Every culture has done so.
--
I rather have them go christian than muslim. Better the enemy you know sort of thing.

	13-11-2004 06:35									#24
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Alva, Christianity has really impoverished Europe over the years, eh?

	13-11-2004 06:55									#25
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Hmm, not sure what you're hinting at, but I'll give it a go.

Yes indeed, maybe not in a financial way, but it has (or had) in other ways.
It took us 2000 years to get to the same level of science that was known to the Greeks.

	13-11-2004 06:57									#26
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quote: Only 3rd World people? What happened to the basics of Christianity, "Turn the other cheak" in America (and elsewhere)?

Besides its high technology, a lot of America is 3rd world

	13-11-2004 07:07									#27
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quote: It took us 2000 years to get to the same level of science that was known to the Greeks.

I thought they reached comparable levels around the Renaissance times. So around 1400 years.

What I was getting at, is that Europe has benefitted greatly from Christianity, that it surprises me someone could consider them to be a hindrance.

	13-11-2004 07:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I thought they reached comparable levels around the Renaissance times. So around 1400 years

That's one.
Two is that the scientific backwardness in middle Ages had more to do with barbarian invasions than with introducing Christianity.
The problems didn't start in IV century, when majority of former RE became Christian, but later on.

	13-11-2004 07:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I thought they reached comparable levels around the Renaissance times. So around 1400 years. What I was getting at, is that Europe has benefitted greatly from Christianity, that it surprises me someone could consider them to be a hindrance.

If you compare muslim and christian kingdoms from that time you would find out,
that the muslims at this time were more open minded and scientifically more developed than their christian counterparts.
The steep rise of the european countries began only after the church lost its power (and the strict control it had over the christian science and society)
(whereas in the muslim countries the religious factions gained more power within the society and they became more narrow minded and more xenophobe)

	13-11-2004 07:22									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi That's like calling the Branch Dravidians a Christian commune.

Or calling Stalin an atheist.