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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
http://www.palestinercs.org/intifadasummary.htm
Total number of Palestinian deaths & injuries in West Bank & Gaza since Sept 29th, 2000 is 3,222 deaths, 27,484 injuries.[/url]
That's all I can find right now. Notice, however, that Israel has killed in four years what it took the Palestinians 84 four years to do to the Israelis. |
Hmmm, 3,222 deaths? All of them civilians? Are you counting Hamas members carrying guns as civilians?
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=8792
quote:
Misrepresenting civilian deaths in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, guest columnist Rashid Khalidi erroneously reported June 17 in the Los Angeles Times that “The U.S. media regularly fail to mention that three times as many Palestinians as Israelis–most on both sides civilians–have been killed since September 2000, when the second intifada began.” (“Can Hamas Cut a Deal for Peace?”)
Khalidi seriously overstated the percentage of Palestinian civilian casualties. According to the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism, 2,329 Palestinians have died in the conflict between Sept. 2000 and June 15, 2003, and 785 have died on the Israeli side. On the Palestinian side, 867 were “non-combatants killed by the opposite side.” In contrast, on the Israeli side, 604 killed were non-combatants killed by the opposite side.” Thus, while it is true that at 76.9 percent, most Israelis killed were civilians, it is not true that most Palestinian fatalities were civilians. Only 37.2 percent of Palestinian fatalities were civilians. (See www.ict.org.il for details.) |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:19
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Incidently, they're already shooting at each other.
Now we'll see the wisdom of creating multiple armed camps who think targeting children is OK if it gets them closer to their aims, and who are accountable to no one except the king rat (if even him). I hope it goes well, but I really doubt it.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...68_25?hub=World
quote:
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Mahmoud Abbas, the temporary successor to Yasser Arafat, escaped unharmed Sunday when militants firing assault rifles burst into a mourning tent for the deceased Palestinian leader, killing two security guards and wounding six other people.
The shooting raised grave concerns about a violent power struggle in the post-Arafat era. Some of the gunmen shouted slogans calling Abbas, a moderate who has spoken out against violence, an agent of the United States.
The bursts of gunfire came just hours after Palestinian officials set Jan. 9 as the date for elections to choose a new leader -- the first vote in nine years.
The temporary Palestinian leadership, headed by Abbas, has been trying to send a message of unity since Arafat's death Thursday. Arafat's responsibilities were divided among several leaders, and officials held talks with rival factions in Arafat's Fatah movement and the militant opposition groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
However, those rivalries burst into the open minutes after Abbas, the new PLO chief, entered the Gaza City mourning tent, where some 10,000 people -- including about 3,000 armed men, most of them police officers -- gathered Sunday evening. Abbas, accompanied by Gaza strongman Mohammed Dahlan and surrounded by security guards, shook hands with mourners.
Moments later, a group of at least 20 gunmen barged into the tent shouting, "Abbas and Dahlan are agents for the Americans!''
Gunfire then popped through the tent. It appears most of the shots were fired in the air -- the casualty toll likely would have been far higher had the gunmen taken aim at the large crowd.
Abbas' bodyguards hustled him into a corner as frightened mourners scrambled over plastic chairs to flee. Abbas was taken to Palestinian headquarters.
The gunmen reportedly melted into the gigantic crowd and escaped.
Speaking to reporters, Abbas tried to play down the incident.
"While we were receiving condolences, a huge crowd gathered there and then random shooting broke out, but not in my direction,'' he said.
Abbas said he did not hear any slogans against him and planned to continue talks with rival Palestinian factions. Abbas has tried in the past, as prime minister, to persuade militants to halt attacks on Israel.
However, militants signalled Sunday they were not interested in a ceasefire. In a Gaza City parade, masked militants unveiled a new rocket, which they claimed had an extended range that could reach the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon. The long, green "Al-Yasser 1'' rocket, named after Arafat, was shown to a cheering crowd as Palestinian security looked on.
Sunday's shooting raised questions about the ability of the Palestinians to carry out their election peacefully.
Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, is widely expected to run for Palestinian Authority president. However, victory is far from certain. None of the likely candidates, including Abbas, has the stature of Arafat, and many Palestinians consider Abbas' generation of politicians to be tainted by corruption and out of touch with the masses.
"They realize very clearly that without a popular mandate, they can't make any important decisions,'' said Mouin Rabbani, senior Middle East analyst with the International Crisis Group in Amman, Jordan.
Abbas is expected to be a nominee of Arafat's dominant Fatah movement, but not necessarily the only one. He told the Arab satellite TV station Al-Jazeera that Fatah would soon choose a candidate.
Marwan Barghouti, a leader of the Palestinian uprising who is jailed by Israel, plans to run, according to a person close to him. In recent opinion polls, Barghouti emerged as the most popular politician after Arafat.
Abdel Sattar Qassem, a political science professor and political outsider, said he plans to run as an independent candidate. Qassem, a leading Arafat critic, said his campaign would focus on cleaning up corruption in the Palestinian Authority.
The largest opposition group, Hamas, also is considering whether to field a candidate.
Who emerges as the winner could largely depend on Israel and whether Abbas can produce results during the next two months.
Israeli officials say privately they would like to bolster Abbas, but fear any public embrace of him will weaken his standing.
Palestinian officials called for international pressure on Israel to ease conditions in Palestinian areas to permit the vote to go smoothly. They called for a withdrawal of Israeli troops from Palestinian population centres and said residents of disputed east Jerusalem must participate.
Israel has barred most residents in east Jerusalem from registering to vote. Many Israelis fear that allowing the city's 228,000 Arab residents to vote in such a ballot would strengthen Palestinian claims to the city.
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon signalled flexibility on the matter Sunday, telling his cabinet he would not rule out the possibility of allowing east Jerusalem Palestinians to vote, meeting participants said. No decisions were made.
Israeli security sources said on condition of anonymity that they were considering turning over security responsibility in Gaza and West Bank cities to Palestinian forces. They gave no details on the timing.
U.S. Embassy spokesman Paul Patin said Washington would like Israel to help ensure that the Palestinian elections go smoothly. Patin declined to say whether the United States was pushing for specific goodwill gestures. |
Last edited by notyoueither on 15-11-2004 at 12:29
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:19
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Yep. Yasser was a noble human being alright, and he came from a long line of noble human beings...
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ma...grand_mufti.php
quote:
Muhammed Amin al-Husseini [many spelling variations] was born in 1893 (or 1895), the son of the Mufti of Jerusalem and member of an esteemed, aristocratic family. The Husseinis were one of the richest and most powerful of all the rivalling clans in the Ottoman province known as the Judaean part of Palestine.
Amin al-Husseini studied religious law at al-Azhar University, Cairo, and attended the Istanbul School of Administration. In 1913 he went to Mecca on a pilgrimage, earning the honorary title of "Haj". He voluntarily joined the Ottoman Turkish army in World War I but returned to Jerusalem in 1917 and expediently switched sides to aid the victorious British. He acquired the reputation as a violent, fanatical anti-Zionist zealot and was jailed by the British for instigating a 1920 Arab attack against Jews who were praying at the Western Wall.
The first Palestine High Commissioner. Sir Herbert Samuel arrived in Palestine on July 1, 1920. He was a weak administrator who was too ready to compromise and appease the extremist, nationalistic Arab minority led by Haj Amin al-Husseini. When the existing Arab Mufti of Jerusalem (religious leader) died in 1921, Samuels was influenced by anti-Zionist British officials on his staff. He pardoned al-Husseini and, in January 1922, appointed him as the new Mufti, and even invented a new title of Grand Mufti. He was simultaneously made President of a newly created Supreme Muslim Council. Al-Husseini thereby became the religious and political leader of the Arabs.
The appointment of the young al-Husseini as Mufti was a seminal event. Prior to his rise to power, there were active Arab factions supporting cooperative development of Palestine involving Arabs and Jews. But al-Husseini would have none of that; he was devoted to driving Jews out of Palestine, without compromise, even if it set back the Arabs 1000 years.
William Ziff, in his book "The Rape of Palestine," summarizes:
Implicated in the [1920] disturbances was a political adventurer named Haj Amin al Husseini. Haj Amin, was sentenced by a British court to fifteen years hard labor. Conveniently allowed to escape by the police, he was a fugitive in Syria. Shortly after, the British then allowed him to return to Palestine where, despite the opposition of the muslim High Council who regarded him as a hoodlum, Haj Amin was appointed by the British High Commissioner as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem for life. [P. 22]
Al-Husseini represented newly emerging proponents of militant, Palestinian Arab nationalism, a previously unknown concept. Once he was in power, he began a campaign of terror and intimidation against anyone opposed to his rule and policies. He killed Jews at every opportunity, but also eliminated Arabs who did not support his campaign of violence. Husseini was not willing to negotiate or make any kind of compromise for the sake of peace.
As a young man, al-Husseini worked with a native Jew, Abbady, who documented this comment:
Remember, Abbady, this was and will remain an Arab land. We do not mind you natives of the country, but those alien invaders, the Zionists, will be massacred to the last man. We want no progress, no prosperity. Nothing but the sword will decide the fate of this country.
In 1929, major Arab riots were instigated against the Jews of Palestine. They began when al-Husseini falsely accused Jews of defiling and endangering local mosques, including al-Aqsa. The call went out to the Arab masses: "Izbah Al-Yahud!" — "Slaughter the Jews!" After the killing of Jews in Hebron, the Mufti disseminated photographs of slaughtered Jews with the claim that the dead were Arabs killed by Jews.
In April, 1936 six prominent Arab leaders formed the Arab Higher Committee, with the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini as head of the organization, joining forces to protest British support of Zionist progress in Palestine. In the same month, riots broke out in Jaffa commencing a three-year period of violence and civil strife in Palestine that is known as the Arab Revolt. The Arab Higher Committee led the campaign of terrorism against Jewish and British targets.
Using the turmoil of the Arab Revolt as cover, al-Husseini consolidated his control over the Palestinian Arabs with a campaign of murder against Jews and non-compliant Arabs, the recruitment of armed militias, and the raising of funds from around the Muslim world using anti-Jewish propaganda. In 1937 the Grand Mufti expressed his solidarity with Germany, asking the Nazi Third Reich to oppose establishment of a Jewish state, stop Jewish immigration to Palestine, and provide arms to the Arab population. Following an assassination attempt on the British Inspector-General of the Palestine Police Force and the murder by Arab extremists of Jews and moderate Arabs, the Arab Higher Committee was declared illegal by the British. The Grand Mufti lost his office of President of the Supreme muslim Council, his membership on the Waqf committee, and was forced into exile in Syria in 1937. The British deported the Arab mayor of Jerusalem along with other members of the Arab Higher Committee.
According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini's efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin.
In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:
... to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy.
While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler's special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS "mountain divisions" that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.
At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:
The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.
With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution. The Mufti was never tried because the Allies were afraid of the storm in the Arab world if the hero of Arab nationalism was treated as a war criminal.
From Egypt al-Husseini was among the sponsors of the 1948 war against the new State of Israel. Spurned by the Jordanian monarch, who gave the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to someone else, Haj Amin al-Husseini arranged King Abdullah's assassination in 1951, while still living in exile in Egypt. King Tallal followed Abdullah as king of Jordan, and he refused to give permission to Amin al-Husseini to come into Jordanian Jerusalem. After one year, King Tallal was declared incompetent; the new King Hussein also refused to give al-Husseini permission to enter Jerusalem. King Hussein recognized that the former Grand Mufti would only stir up trouble and was a danger to peace in the region.
Haj Amin al-Husseini eventually died in exile in 1974. He never returned to Jerusalem after his 1937 departure. His place as leader of the radical, nationalist Palestinian Arabs was taken by his nephew Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini, better known as Yasser Arafat. In August 2002, Arafat gave an interview in which he referred to "our hero al-Husseini" as a symbol of Palestinian Arab resistance. |
Of course, the fact that he hasn't been successful, and that the conflict he seeks to continue is the cited source of such things as the attack on the WTC... none of these things should be held against him and the movement he represents. You're right, 40 years of terrorism of Israelis, and nothing but grief for Palestinians is not much to bear.
What is that saying? Oh, yeah... if the Palestinians put down their guns there would be peace. If the Israelis put down their guns there would be genocide.
PS. Reagan ****ed up with Nicaragua. He did not make a life out of ****ing up. Arafat did make a life of ****ing up the jews and his own people. But go ahead and keep on equating the two. It's so clever of you.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
PS. Reagan ****ed up with Nicaragua. He did not make a life out of ****ing up. Arafat did make a life of ****ing up the jews and his own people. But go ahead and keep on equating the two. |
If we lay every Israeli civilian killed by terrorism (3600) at the feet of Arafat (which would be unfair), it amounts to not a drop in the bucket of what Reagan did. In fact, Reagan is the far more horrible. He murdered many times the number of people in 1/5th the time. Reagan killed ten times that in Nicaragua, a country with 3/5s the population of Israel.
Reagan did not "**** up" with Nicaragua. He intentionally destroyed a country. Just like he intentionally destroyed Angola and Mozambique. Just like he intentionally destroyed El Salvador and Guatemala. He had more blood on his hands than even Pol Pot.
Arafat doesn't compare to Reagan, you're right. He doesn't even come close to the monster that Reagan was. But since you don't consider the crimes of Reagan to be significant, or you mitigate them because you support Reagan's other goals, and you demonize Arafat because his targets were Jews, regardless of what they had done to his people, you won't care.
As for the Mufti of Jerusalem, that's Britain's fault. They appointed him.
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15-11-2004 05:54
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